Intel unveils Thunderbolt 3.0, mentions eGPUs (Skylake 6th-gen i-core)

[rhx123]

Posting to ensure incorrect information isn't being posted.

Optimus works with x1, x4, x8 and x16 link widths. Only anomoly x1 provides is the NVidia driver engages PCIe compression when it detects a x1 link. Necessary to get some decent performance especially when using DX9 apps over such a narrow link. x4 onwards having far more bandwidth to play with.

The only thing that worries me is that Intel have been using AMD to demo the tech. In theory Optimus should just work. What if NVIDIA is planning to block eGPUS (NV would suffer a lot more than AMD in the Notebook GPU market should eGPUS take off). I haven't seen Intel demo the eGPU running the notebook screen yet, and with the faff that is Enduro, I don't know if I would fully trust an AMD solution.

I guess we just have to wait and see how it pans out.

[Tech Inferno Fan]

Acer Announces US$899 Aspire R13 with USB-C TB3 port for Oct 2015 release



We will be seeing a bunch of affordable PC notebooks with TB3 ports for eGPU connectivity released in the coming months.



From [url=http://www.tomshardware.com/news/acer-convertible-notebooks-revealed,30002.html]Acer Announces Aspire R 13, Chromebook R 11 Convertibles[/url]

Quote

Acer announced an array of new and refreshed products at IFA 2015 in Berlin. Among those products are two new convertible notebook computers, designed with similar features, but aimed at very different segments of the market.

All About That Hinge

Acer will be launching an updated version of the Aspire R 13 notebook this fall. It features Intel's latest Core i5 and i7 (Skylake) processors, and a unique hinge design that the company calls an Ezel Aero hinge, which allows you to configure it in six different ways. Laptop, Display, Pad, and Tent mode are typically found on convertible notebooks, but Ezel and Stand Mode are made possible with the U-shaped hinge design. Acer said the display is sturdy and wobble-free thanks to the dual-torque hinge used.

The Aspire R 13 comes equipped with a precision touchpad that is capable of 3- and 4-finger gestures supported by Windows 10. The touchscreen is capable of 10-point tracking, and supports common gestures such as pinch and swipe.

The Aspire convertible notebook has the option of either a single SSD, or two SSDs configured in RAID 0. It also features support for some of the latest I/O technology. A single USB Type-C connector can be found, which supports Thunderbolt 3 for up to a 40 Gps transfer rate. Acer said this port enables the ability to plug in a discrete graphics card, housed externally. This option would be necessary if you chose the 1440p display option over the standard 1080p display. 

Model	Aspire R 13 R7-372T	Chromebook R 11
OS	Windows 10 Home 64-bit	ChromeOS
Processor	6th Generation Intel Core i5-6200U or i7-6500U	Intel Celeron N3050 or N3150
Memory	up to 8 GB	up to 4 GB
Internal Storage	128 GB, 256 GB, 512 GB SSD - 256 GB, 512 GB, 1 TB SSDs in RAID 0	eMMC flash storage - 16 GB or 32 GB
Display size	13.3-inch	11.6-inch
Resolution	1920 x 1080 or 2560 x 1440	1366 x 768
Touchscreen	10-point Touch - Tap, Swipe, Pinch, Zoom	10-point Touch - Tap, Swipe, Pinch, Zoom
Display Modes	6 Modes - Laptop, Display, Tent, Pad, Ezel, Stand	4 Modes - Laptop, Display, Tent, Pad
Degrees of Rotation	180-degrees	180-degrees
Wireless	Qualcomm VIV 2x2 802.11ac with MU-MIMO Technology	Qualcomm VIV 2x2 802.11ac with MU-MIMO Technology
I/O	Thunderbolt 3 over USB Type-C, 8x USB 3.0[/B]	1x USB 3.0
Webcam	Acer Crystal Eye HD Webcam	HD Webcam with HDR
Dimensions	343.8 (W) x 230.35 (D) x 18.5 (H) mm / 13.54 x 9.07 x 0.71/0.73 inches	294 (W) x 204 (D) x 19.2 (H) mm / 11.57 x 8.03 x 0.76 inches
Weight	1.6 kg / 3.53 lbs	1.25 kg / 2.76 lbs
Availability	October in North America, Europe, Middle-East and Africa	October in North America, November in Europe, Middle-East and Africa
MSRP	Starting at $899	Starting at $299

Both notebooks will be available this October in North America. The Aspire R 13 will start at $899, and the ChromeBook R 11 starts at $299. Europe, Middle-East and Africa will receive the Aspire in October, but will have to wait until November to purchase the Chromebook.

[/QUOTE]

[sangemaru]

That looks so delicious I'd eat it. Especially with DX12 making better use of the iGPU and that shitty undervolted dual-core cpu.

[Tech Inferno Fan]

More Thunderbolt 3 goodness. Following their previous generation, Skylake Lenovo 15" and 17" workstations include TB3 . MSI including TB3 in their thin-and-light gaming notebooks but excluding it from their mammoth GT72 and GT80.

The first Skylake laptops are Lenovo's Thinkpad P50 and P70 graphics workstations | PCWorld

MSI embraces Skylake and Thunderbolt 3.0 for new gaming laptops | PCWorld

[Dschijn]

To me that isn't really for sure that MSI will only offer TB3 to the thin models. This quote isn't very precise:

The newfangled USB-C connector, however, will be featured only on the thinner and lighter versions of MSI’s gaming lineup. The big GT80 Titan and GT72 won’t have USB-C.

MSI will be one of the main promoter for eGPUs, if they want to lock up the high end laptops from the eGPUs to favour the high end mGPUs...?!

[catly1]

I was waiting for a reasonably priced laptop with TB3 but it looked like only $800+ will carry them. Will the new skylake architecture allow the egpu to display to the laptop's screen at full performance? And what can we predict the adaptor's price will be?

$800+ for the laptop, $200 for an adapter (looking at tb2/1's), and $300ish for a decent gpu is already $1300 which is the same price as a new laptop with an non ulv i7 + 970m.

[sangemaru]

It would be pretty cool if AMD did some thinking ahead, purchased LucidLogix if they haven't already, integrated it with Enduro and gave it proper support, and released their own eGPU boxes using MXM-format or proprietary-format cards. The way I see it what AMD is missing in this market that nVidia brings to the table, is some decent compression option.

[Dschijn]

I am pretty sure AMD cards will work with TB3 eGPU systems

[sangemaru]

It's not that AMD cards won't be in TB3 systems, it's that currently if you want to get internal display with an AMD GPU you need to purchase another product, like virtu, which is not quite as competitive as nVidia's current implementation. There's the added concern that the last and current generation mid-range GPU's by nVidia don't feature the highly relevant Async Compute units in a usable form. They say the have them, but they don't seem to work well. So now that GTX-970 card is not really attractive anymore, because I can purchase the r9-290x 30% cheaper that devastates it in dx12 performance. The lower overhead of DX is also of import, because on an express-card 4GBps lane, that overhead is important. There's plenty of people using just a @ x1.2 link at best.

So in this scenario, AMD licensing or purchasing Lucidlogix Virtu outright and integrating their tech into Enduro, or developing their own in-house feature to achieve this option on internal display, I think would give them a serious edge in the eGPU market.

And I want to see MXM-form factor eGPU's. Not big cumbersome boxes.

[Shez]

Alienware Graphics Amplifier: Alienware Graphics Amplifier | Dell

good price with included a 460 Watts Power Supply.

Update: looks like it's not Thunderbolt 3

[Morv]

Alienware Graphics Amplifier: Alienware Graphics Amplifier | Dell

good price with included a 460 Watts Power Supply.

Update: looks like it's not Thunderbolt 3

Those Amplifier thingies are using Alienware's own proprietary connector. So you can only use them with the Alienware notebooks that are capable of using them.

[spartan117ch]

View image: pcie Vergl

I did a litle PCI-E (16x ,8x 4x 1x, 1.Gen 2.Gen 3.Gen) comparison.

And the conclusion is, that Thunderbolt 3 would work for a long Time, actually HighEnd graphic cards like GTX980 don't use the full bandwith.

Lets have fun with eGPUs.

[Splitframe]

I did a litle PCI-E (16x ,8x 4x 1x, 1.Gen 2.Gen 3.Gen) comparison.

And the conclusion is, that Thunderbolt 3 would work for a long Time, actually HighEnd graphic cards like GTX980 don't use the full bandwith.

Lets have fun with eGPUs.

Thanks for the graphs!

I hope I'll be able to get a XPS 15 or comparable slim Notebook with a 6700HQ and TB3

without dGPU and 6+ hours battery life.

Come home, plug 1 TB3 cable in and voila, power, eGPU, monitors, keyboard, mouse, sound, ethernet.

Totally hyped.

[mnrc]

This announcement by Dell is very interesting, mentioning a Surface type tablet with perhaps a low voltage Core i7 processor and with a Thunderbolt 3 connector from which we could hook up external GPUs.

"Dell's latest will reportedly feature a 4K UHD (3840 x 2160) resolution with an InfinityEdge design that cuts down on bezel size. There'll be a stylus for it, and other specs include a Thunderbolt 3 port, 10-hour battery life, and cameras on both back and front (8-megapixel on the rear, with a 5-megapixel selfie cam)."

We don't know yet about the processors, but it wouldn't be surprising to see similar options to Microsoft's Surface 3/4 Pro. If so, hooking this up to a dock and eGPU could make for a very portable and powerful tablet PC.

Have a look here for more info:

Dell is also building its own Microsoft Surface clone | The Verge

[kakashisensei]

I have an alienware laptop with graphics amp, and when using an AMD gpu it does work with the laptop screen through enduro. There is nothing special about the graphics amp connection, it is a pci-e 3.0 x4 connection. There is some proprietary alienware software, but I believe that just turns on/off the mux to switch between egpu and dgpu. The igpu is connected to the laptop screen. AMD had released a special version driver called the graphics amp driver when the graphics amp came out. But now I hear that any recent AMD driver should work. So not sure why custom egpu solutions still can't use the internal screen.

Also, all the TB3 egpu demos have been using the external screen. There is no guarantee that TB3 will support using the laptop screen so far.

[Morv]

I have an alienware laptop with graphics amp, and when using an AMD gpu it does work with the laptop screen through enduro. There is nothing special about the graphics amp connection, it is a pci-e 3.0 x4 connection. There is some proprietary alienware software, but I believe that just turns on/off the mux to switch between egpu and dgpu. The igpu is connected to the laptop screen. AMD had released a special version driver called the graphics amp driver when the graphics amp came out. But now I hear that any recent AMD driver should work. So not sure why custom egpu solutions still can't use the internal screen.

Also, all the TB3 egpu demos have been using the external screen. There is no guarantee that TB3 will support using the laptop screen so far.

But the connector is special, isn't it? Locking you out from using it with any other notebook that is not "amplified".

With Thunderbolt you might buy one eGPU adapter and use it with multiple different notebooks that simply provide a Thunderbolt slot.

Apart from this I don't see a reason why TB3 eGPUs won't enable internal display. It's just a PCIe connection that connects a graphics card, same as your graphics amp. Also it's already working but most people use Nvidia cards because either AMD cards are showing problems with Akitio adapter(TB2) or they wan't to profit from Optimus compression when using mPCIe or Expresscard connections.

[Vapochilled]

Alienware Graphics Amplifier: Alienware Graphics Amplifier | Dell

good price with included a 460 Watts Power Supply.

Update: looks like it's not Thunderbolt 3

Cant we use this Alienware amplifier in any other TB2 supported laptop?

[Morv]

Cant we use this Alienware amplifier in any other TB2 supported laptop?

No, of course not. The amplifier connector is proprietary and designed by Alienware to work with their notebooks only. The amplifier is not connected via Thunderbolt.

Just watch the video on the site linked by Shez.

It's still cool though. Not wanting to bash the product but I see the future in one connector for all kinds of devices and that is Thunderbolt.

[spartan117ch]

Cant we use this Alienware amplifier in any other TB2 supported laptop?

It could be possible with and adapter, it would be easier to handle it, if just the pci-e signal is going through the propriatary port. So you "just" would need a Alienware propriatary to thunderbolt 3 adapter.

[sangemaru]

More importantly, if the driver supports this functionality, how do we expose it on non-proprietary connections?

Sent from my Neken N6 using Tapatalk

[Morv]

It could be possible with and adapter, it would be easier to handle it, if just the pci-e signal is going through the propriatary port. So you "just" would need a Alienware propriatary to thunderbolt 3 adapter.

Nope. Thunderbolt needs chips on both ends to verify a proper legit connection. So you don't simply create an adapter that converts the Alieware connector to Thunderbolt.

That's why EXP GDC and PE4C don't(=can't) offer HDMI to Thunderbolt cables in their way cheaper adapters compared to Akitio Thunder2.

At least in the past Intel wouldn't allow such products because they have control over who is allowed to create Thunderbolt products. Maybe it will change with Thunderbolt 3 but I don't think so.

[spartan117ch]

Nope. Thunderbolt needs chips on both ends to verify a proper legit connection. So you don't simply create an adapter that converts the Alieware connector to Thunderbolt.

That's why EXP GDC and PE4C don't(=can't) offer HDMI to Thunderbolt cables in their way cheaper adapters compared to Akitio Thunder2.

At least in the past Intel wouldn't allow such products because they have control over who is allowed to create Thunderbolt products. Maybe it will change with Thunderbolt 3 but I don't think so.

Yes this is the annoying thing on it, you need the okay from intel. But it is possible to build one, maybe as a Alienware you can take the license or maybe else EXP GDC and PE4C could go as developer.

[Dschijn]

[davide445]

What I can't still understand is if the availability of a TB3 port on a Skylake laptop does automatically mean eGPU will be possible.

AFIK eGPU it's an Extension/Profile whatever that need to be enabled into TB3 implementation, but it's some hw or sw stuff?

[Dschijn]

I would assume it has to be programmed into the BIOS / UEFI.