errin Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 14 hours ago, DanKnight said: USB and RJ45 ports are on the table. They may or may not be put on the Node, but may in a future product. (I'm pushing for minimum 1 RJ45 / 1 USB!) Just curious, how many USB ports do you use on average and at most? Power delivery is a more complicated situation that depends on the laptop's requirements and spec. Depending on laptop, it may or may not work, and that is something we're still in the validating process for. At least 3. One for Keyboard one for Mouse and one for Headset. IMHO 4 is the best solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morv Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 @DanKnight From my experience: Ethernet and one USB 3.1 port should be fine from your side. Additional needed ports can then be added with a hub. I've had a 15" Macbook Pro Retina in use until some days ago. As it only offers 2 USB 3 ports a hub was a must have. I ended up with one powered 4 port USB 3 hub where I attach a USB sound card, my external USB 3 hdd and another passive 4 port USB 2.0 hub where I attached my peripherals to(USB mouse, Xbox 360 controller receiver, Logitech Unifying adapter). The left over ports are used for connecting a smartphone or something else like a wheel or joystick. That's the ports needed for complete desktop usage for me, as an example. You hardly can or want to put all those ports on an eGPU adapter so a hub is bought anyway I'd say. Given I'd use a Razer Core with it's 4 USB ports, I'd still need a hub. But I agree that you should really go for at least one USB 3 port, already in your first dedicated eGPU product. Ethernet is nice to have but could also be solved by an USB adapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodhawk Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 People still dont understand how easily the TB3 port starts having over head issues. The moment you start using those extra ports, and want to game at the same time, your performance will tank. Unless you want to unplug and plug in a few wires every time you want to play something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodhawk Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, rene_canlas said: I asked a similar question to InXtron CS (Akitio ODM?) about charging. The reply I got was that their implementation of thunderbolt port on the board could provide up to 15W (5V/3A) of power. That's too small to charge a laptop. Maybe Dan can confirm? Yeap, there are 3 TB3 controllers out there, one is a single port version, the second one is a dual port and the 3rd one is the lower power version. On desktops AFAIK they are capable of sourcing upto 100W, not sure about the laptop implementations, but the 15W sounds in line with what i have heard as well. Edited October 4, 2016 by bloodhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulmar Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 On 28/09/2016 at 3:57 AM, Morv said: Nope? The TB3 connection provides 40 Gbps but the PCIe slot only uses 32 Gbps to follow PCIe specifications. Makes 8 Gbps leftover which can be used for peripheral stuff. Ethernet takes 1 Gbps, makes 7 Gbps left for the USB ports. Unless one is going to use only external SSDs with these ports, it's not going to happen that the bandwidth is used in a way that the GPU performance is crippled. If you are talking about PCIe 3.0 X16, its bandwidth is 32 GBps instead of 32 Gbps you mentioned. Thunderbolt 3.0 is not as fast as you would expect compared to PCIe 3.0. Its speed is only comparable with PCIe 3.0 X4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morv Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Fulmar said: If you are talking about PCIe 3.0 X16, its bandwidth is 32 GBps instead of 32 Gbps you mentioned. Thunderbolt 3.0 is not as fast as you would expect compared to PCIe 3.0. Its speed is only comparable with PCIe 3.0 X4 No, I was talking about PCIe 3.0 x4. Thunderbolt 3 offers 40 Gbps where the biggest fulfillable PCIe specification is the one of PCIe 3.0 x4 with 32 Gbps bandwidth. I don't see why you think I'm talking about PCIe 3.0 x16? I own a Thunderbolt 2 eGPU for nearly 2 years and know about it's speed limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirios Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 No need in any USB\RJ45 etc, just display related ports (HDMI, Display Port) will be more than enough. Additional data ports are just another hit for bandwidth. IMHO. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 10/3/2016 at 11:21 PM, rene_canlas said: I asked a similar question to InXtron CS (Akitio ODM?) about charging. The reply I got was that their implementation of thunderbolt port on the board could provide up to 15W (5V/3A) of power. That's too small to charge a laptop. Maybe Dan can confirm? On 10/4/2016 at 7:33 AM, bloodhawk said: Yeap, there are 3 TB3 controllers out there, one is a single port version, the second one is a dual port and the 3rd one is the lower power version. On desktops AFAIK they are capable of sourcing upto 100W, not sure about the laptop implementations, but the 15W sounds in line with what i have heard as well. @rene_canlas @bloodhawk Yes, currently it is a 5V/3A Power Delivery spec. However, it is not yet finalized. This is why I mentioned earlier, it may or may not charge some laptops due to the laptop's spec. Razer's Core has a 100W Power Delivery spec, but can't charge some laptops because of the laptop's spec. On 10/4/2016 at 3:20 AM, Ness said: What matters most is egpu experience with different laptop manufacturers/gpus/os. Please don't try to do everything at once. USBs, RJs and powering laptop are all great but not essential. And certainly will postpone release date. On 10/4/2016 at 6:43 AM, errin said: At least 3. One for Keyboard one for Mouse and one for Headset. IMHO 4 is the best solution. On 10/4/2016 at 7:25 AM, Morv said: @DanKnight From my experience: Ethernet and one USB 3.1 port should be fine from your side. Additional needed ports can then be added with a hub. I've had a 15" Macbook Pro Retina in use until some days ago. As it only offers 2 USB 3 ports a hub was a must have. I ended up with one powered 4 port USB 3 hub where I attach a USB sound card, my external USB 3 hdd and another passive 4 port USB 2.0 hub where I attached my peripherals to(USB mouse, Xbox 360 controller receiver, Logitech Unifying adapter). The left over ports are used for connecting a smartphone or something else like a wheel or joystick. That's the ports needed for complete desktop usage for me, as an example. You hardly can or want to put all those ports on an eGPU adapter so a hub is bought anyway I'd say. Given I'd use a Razer Core with it's 4 USB ports, I'd still need a hub. But I agree that you should really go for at least one USB 3 port, already in your first dedicated eGPU product. Ethernet is nice to have but could also be solved by an USB adapter. @errin @Morv Thanks for the info. I myself use one for keyboard, mouse and headset and occasionally one for a flash drive. On my desktop case, I have 2 USB ports in the front, which is no where near enough (i like plugging my peripherals in the front so i can easily unplug them and bring them with me to work.) So I bought a cheap USB 3 hub to plug in all my peripherals. I was thinking of the same solution in the case our enclosure won't have RJ45 or USB ports. We're trying to strive for the most basic solution at a way cheaper cost than our competitors. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradsh Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 On 9/26/2016 at 6:27 PM, DanKnight said: Currently in the US office, we are testing on the Skull Canyon and Razer Blade Stealth. We haven't ran tests on the upcoming MacBook Pro because Apple hasn't announced anything about it having Thunderbolt 3. Any testing with Dell XPS 13 or XPS 15? I believe these have alpine ridge TB3. Probably more popular devices than razer of skull canyon by a very wide margin. Really a lot of laptops now with TB3 but its very unclear which work for this application. Compatibility will definitely be something people will want to know before buying the product. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12G1VTFWkTL5tb8nxUAtnDHwTLyya9I3Vw-OXXrIN4e4/edit#gid=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, bradsh said: Any testing with Dell XPS 13 or XPS 15? I believe these have alpine ridge TB3. Probably more popular devices than razer of skull canyon by a very wide margin. Really a lot of laptops now with TB3 but its very unclear which work for this application. Compatibility will definitely be something people will want to know before buying the product. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12G1VTFWkTL5tb8nxUAtnDHwTLyya9I3Vw-OXXrIN4e4/edit#gid=0 Not yet. We will probably be sending our Node to Dell for testing and validation though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rene_canlas Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 I use the TB2 on my XPS 15 (9550) via a Startech TB3 to TB adapter. I get the onboard GTX 960m to play nice with my GTX 1060 by disabling it in device manager.Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolas Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 On 10/13/2016 at 8:25 PM, rene_canlas said: I use the TB2 on my XPS 15 (9550) via a Startech TB3 to TB adapter. I get the onboard GTX 960m to play nice with my GTX 1060 by disabling it in device manager. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk Can you show us how you got that to work? Or is it plug and play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 @DanKnight: Do we know at this stage if the Node will be available outside of the US? Reportedly Razer haven't released the Core in Europe because they can't keep up with demand in the US. As such, the only options we have for EGPUs over here are either to import a Core from the States at considerable expense (also minus the official Razer warranty), or hack together our own solutions using products like your Thunder2/3 boxes. I've been considering getting a Skull Canyon NUC as a replacement for my ageing system for a while now - the GPU is the only missing piece of the puzzle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 5 hours ago, Rookie said: @DanKnight: Do we know at this stage if the Node will be available outside of the US? Reportedly Razer haven't released the Core in Europe because they can't keep up with demand in the US. As such, the only options we have for EGPUs over here are either to import a Core from the States at considerable expense (also minus the official Razer warranty), or hack together our own solutions using products like your Thunder2/3 boxes. I've been considering getting a Skull Canyon NUC as a replacement for my ageing system for a while now - the GPU is the only missing piece of the puzzle. The Node will be available outside of the US, we just don't know when. We predict we will be in the same situation as Razer, but I will try my best to work with the team to get some out to EU. Again, not sure when. I'm hoping we can get them in EU by early 2017. I know we got a big EU community, so I won't forget you guys. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Will livestream sometime next week! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodhawk Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 24 minutes ago, DanKnight said: Will livestream sometime next week! Hooked up to the node? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, DanKnight said: The Node will be available outside of the US, we just don't know when. We predict we will be in the same situation as Razer, but I will try my best to work with the team to get some out to EU. Again, not sure when. I'm hoping we can get them in EU by early 2017. I know we got a big EU community, so I won't forget you guys. Good to hear! Another question - most of the benchmarks that I've seen for the Core show that we can expect a slight performance hit from an EGPU versus a natively installed card. From what I've read it looks like we should expect cards to perform at around 80-85% of their true capacity. I'm assuming this is a limitation of the TB3 interface and thus the same will hold true for the Node? (By no means a deal-breaker, just good to know.) Edited October 20, 2016 by Rookie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, bloodhawk said: Hooked up to the node? Heck yeah. Going to set-up a webcam to show off the Skull Canyon and Node working together. 6 hours ago, Rookie said: Good to hear! Another question - most of the benchmarks that I've seen for the Core show that we can expect a slight performance hit from an EGPU versus a natively installed card. From what I've read it looks like we should expect cards to perform at around 80-85% of their true capacity. I'm assuming this is a limitation of the TB3 interface and thus the same will hold true for the Node? (By no means a deal-breaker, just good to know.) Good question. Yeah, there's some overhead from Thunderbolt, so there will be a hit on performance. But a GPU working at 80-90% is still better than an integrated or embedded GPU. Edited October 20, 2016 by DanKnight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 18 minutes ago, DanKnight said: Heck yeah. Going to set-up a webcam to show off the Skull Canyon and Node working together. Good question. Yeah, there's some overhead from Thunderbolt, so there will be a hit on performance. But a GPU working at 80-90% is still better than an integrated or embedded GPU. Oh, absolutely. I mean, the IGPU on the Skull Canyon is actually not that bad all things considered, but even a slightly impaired discrete GPU will completely stomp it! I think I'll take a TB3 connection with a minor performance hit over having a PCI-E ribbon adaptor sticking out of the case and hooked up to some sort of Frankenstein PSU setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) So recently reviewed PowerColor Devil Box loses about 25% of desktop gpu power (tested with quadcore laptop cpu and even more with low-voltage cpu). Are we going to see same performance form Node? Unfortunately pcie x4 is not the case Edited October 21, 2016 by Ness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodhawk Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Ness said: So recently reviewed PowerColor Devil Box loses about 25% of desktop gpu power (tested with quadcore laptop cpu and even more with low-voltage cpu). Are we going to see same performance form Node? Unfortunately pcie x4 is not the case As i Mentioned earlier, that will be the case with every TB3 based egpu solution. Check out the difference in scores between TB3 Vs. A direct connect via m. 2 using a GTX1080 - 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 On 21.10.2016 at 10:24 PM, bloodhawk said: As i Mentioned earlier, that will be the case with every TB3 based egpu solution. Check out the difference in scores between TB3 Vs. A direct connect via m. 2 using a GTX1080 - OK, thanks! But what about difference in performance between stealth/core and XPS/core (http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10761-razer-core-review/)? Can I assume that Razer came up with something to minimize tb3 controller latency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Inferno Fan Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, Ness said: OK, thanks! But what about difference in performance between stealth/core and XPS/core (http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10761-razer-core-review/)? Can I assume that Razer came up with something to minimize tb3 controller latency? The author of the article explains why the Blade+core eGPU benchmark performance is better than XPS+core: - Blade gets a faster [email protected] CPU with hyperthreading support - XPS15 gets a slower [email protected] CPU with no hyperthreading support 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, Tech Inferno Fan said: The author of the article explains why the Blade+core eGPU benchmark performance is better than XPS+core: - Blade gets a faster [email protected] CPU with hyperthreading support - XPS15 gets a slower [email protected] CPU with no hyperthreading support damn, thought it was stealth sry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanKnight Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Will be livestreaming soon! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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