unclewebb

Core Temperature = TJ Max - Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) reading All software uses the same formula to determine the core temperature of any Intel Core i CPU. All software reads the exact same temperature sensor. To convert that data to a core temperature, software must use the correct value for TJ Max. Since November 2008 when the first Core i was produced, software has been able to read this value from each core of each and every Core i CPU. Almost 6 years later and SpeedFan is still not doing this correctly. It is using a value of 85C for TJ Max. That is wrong. RealTemp and ThrottleStop read the correct value from the CPU and that is 100C. That is why SpeedFan is reporting the wrong core temperature. There is a way to go into the SpeedFan configuration file and change this from 85 to 100. If you do this, SpeedFan will start reporting the same temperatures as every other monitoring program will report for your CPU. It would probably take 80 watts or more when running Prime 95 on a typical 4th Generation Core i7 Quad core CPU. The 4700MQ has a TDP rating of only 47 Watts. That is not nearly enough to run Prime 95 at full speed so the CPU throttles by reducing the multiplier. The screen shot you posted here http://forum.techinferno.com/lenovo-ibm/7204-need-help-y510p-tempreture.html#post98923 shows that your CPU is at 47.1 Watts. The multiplier has been automatically reduced to 27 to keep the CPU right at the power limit. You can not use ThrottleStop or any software that I know of to overcome this limit. With a modified bios, you might be able to run this CPU long term at over 47 Watts but then it is likely that your CPU temperature is quickly going to become the limiting factor. Edit - ThrottleStop also shows TDP Throttle. That means your CPU is throttling because it has reached the TDP power limit, 47 Watts. I am slowly working on a new version of ThrottleStop. It has a few more features like overclocking and CPU voltage control for the 4th Generation CPUs like you have. ThrottleStop 7.00 beta 2 https://www.sendspace.com/file/xrar30

ThrottleStop 7.00 beta 2 ThrottleStop_700b2 What version of ThrottleStop are you using? Your screen shot didn't include that info. The latest version includes some more features for the 4th Gen Haswell CPUs including adjustable CPU core voltage and overclocking multipliers. A Core i7-4702MQ is a 37 Watt CPU. That is not enough to run it at full speed when fully loaded with Prime95. That is not even enough to run the TS Bench at full load and full speed. Your default multiplier is 22 so your screen shot shows that Turbo Boost is working, it is just being limited, likely due to power consumption. Can you post a screen shot of the ThrottleStop - Turbo Power Limits window? There might be some more info in there. Depending on the bios, 37 Watt CPUs can be limited to less than that. I wish there was more that you could do but often times the bios is locked up pretty tight these days. Can you run a single thread of the ThrottleStop TS Bench? If you have nothing else running on your computer this is usually a good way to see the maximum multiplier. The CPU should not be power limited when only running a single thread of the TS Bench so it is easier to see the max multiplier. Post a screen shot of your Turbo Ratio Limits too. Edit - The maximum package C State is usually locked in the bios too. If the C State button in the ThrottleStop C State window is grayed out, the bios has this feature locked. Nothing you can do unless you can find an unlocked bios for your Clevo. The single threaded RealTemp XS Bench is also an easy way to confirm that Turbo Boost is working correctly.

If the bios is that flaky you are better off overclocking your Haswell using ThrottleStop. ThrottleStop 7.00 beta 2 ThrottleStop_700b2

Intel has similar TDP power limits for the CPU that can be set within the chipset. Most laptop manufacturers do not use these secondary limits but some do. That might be the problem with this laptop model. If these values are set lower than the ThrottleStop values, then the lower values are used. I wish I could do more to help but it might be a long while before I get this problem solved. For this laptop, the 3920XM is not recommended because the bios does not let it run at its full Intel rated speed. Thanks for all of your testing. It helps me understand these problems much better.

A 3920XM is an unlocked CPU with an Unlimited maximum multiplier. Unfortunately, if you look at the Turbo Ratio Limits window, it displays "Turbo Overclocking - Locked". This means the bios has locked this feature so you can not take advantage of what your XM CPU is capable of. MaxMulti can not help when the bios locks this feature. What are your Turbo Power Limits set to when testing? Did you set them both to 100 or 200? I think if the Long and Short term power limits are set much higher, the multiplier should go higher than 32.00 when this CPU is fully loaded as long as it can get enough power from the power adapter and as long as it doesn't get too hot. Also disable BD PROCHOT.

I am not sure how the TDP Level control works on the 3rd Generation XM CPUs. This setting is not important because your CPU power limits are not locked so you can set the turbo TDP as high as you like. The only limit is heat. You could set these both to a sky high number like 256. This should allow maximum turbo boost even when fully loaded as long as your CPU does not get too hot. If your CPU gets too hot, it will throttle and slow down to protect itself regardless of how you set ThrottleStop so you do not need to worry when adjusting this. ThrottleStop can not be used to overclock the 3rd Generation Extreme CPUs like your 3920XM. My friend Dufus on NBR wrote a little program that might be able to help. Try running MaxMulti and then in ThrottleStop increase the turbo multipliers and increase the Set Multiplier value. Run something simple like 1 thread of the TS Bench test and post a screen shot while that is running so I can see your maximum multiplier. MaxMulti This little program might be able to help out the 2nd and 3rd Gen CPUs if your bios does not have adjustable turbo multipliers.

Have you run a ThrottleStop log file yet while gaming? This will show if your CPU is being throttled. It is hard to figure out a problem if you don't have some numbers to look at. Turn on GPU temperature monitoring as well in ThrottleStop so that data is included in your log.

The ThrottleStop TS Bench is not the best benchmark to use for CPU performance comparison testing. This benchmark is very dependent on how many background tasks are running on your system. If you have a very lean system with very few programs running in the background then you might be able to get some consistent times out of the TS Bench. When doing performance comparisons, you will probably get more consistent, repeatable and comparable results from a benchmark like wPrime. Every benchmark has a purpose. The TS Bench was designed to let a user easily load 1, 2 or 4 cores of their CPU so they can better understand the multiplier data that ThrottleStop shows and get a feel for how Intel CPUs really work. It's not an ultimate balls to the wall load like Linpack testing. It was designed to be a very consistent and steady load for general multiplier, temperature and TDP testing purposes. The TDP value displayed by ThrottleStop is a value calculated within the CPU by Intel. The purpose of this data is to control the Turbo Boost function. It is a VID based approximation of power consumption so it is probably not a 100% accurate display of CPU power consumption, especially at idle. To properly measure power consumption, you would need to directly monitor the amps and voltage going into the CPU socket which is not easy for most users to do. The reported TDP is temperature and load dependent. The typical Windows install has 500 or more background threads running at any given time. There is no way to perfectly control all of these threads so some random variation in your testing results should be expected. That doesn't mean there is something "wrong" with ThrottleStop. It's just the way it is when testing with a Core i based laptop. In a TDP limited processor, Intel compares the amount of Turbo Boost available to water in a bath tub. When you first start testing, if you have waited long enough after booting up, the bath tub should be full and the CPU will have access to the maximum amount of turbo boost. If you do some back to back testing and you don't wait long enough between tests, when you start your second test, you may not have the same amount of Turbo Boost available. I don't know of any way to determine the amount of water in the tub that is available or how much time has to pass to make sure that you are back to the same starting point. Consistent back to back 3DMark runs or any benchmark is going to be a challenge in these TDP limited CPUs unless you can control this. You usually need to have EIST enabled for ThrottleStop to work correctly. If you use ThrottleStop and make changes to your CPU or have EIST disabled and then exit ThrottleStop, it is anyone's guess as to what state your CPU will be in. Same thing if you have ThrottleStop enabled and then switch it back to Monitoring mode. The CPU will be left in its previous state so Monitoring mode after you boot up vs Monitoring mode after you have made changes to your CPU can be completely different. When testing it is best to just leave it enabled. When you change CPUs, you also have to make sure you delete the ThrottleStop.INI config file or settings that were appropriate from your previous CPU might screw up how your new CPU runs. The multiplier data from ThrottleStop is extremely accurate. It can tell you exactly what your CPU is up to and exactly how much Turbo Boost your CPU is using. It's up to users to try and control the million and one other variables so they can get some useful information out of this data. CPU-Z and XTU are both great programs but sometimes the data coming from them doesn't give a user a clear understanding of what their CPU is really doing internally. Here's a good example of this: Edit: T|I doesn't seem to allow links to outside sites so send me a PM if you can't figure out the following link or if it gets butchered with *****. www . overclock . net/t/1438732/event-viewer-vs-intels-etu-for-reporting-thermal-throttling#post_21104733 Just some testing background info. Now back to testing. The VID findings in this thread are very interesting. The VID data used to be important when searching for Core 2 CPUs that could clock well but there hasn't been enough VID data collected and analyzed for the newer Core i CPUs.

Exit ThrottleStop, delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file and then run ThrottleStop again. This will force it to read the correct TJ Max value from your CPU. You should always do this after swapping CPUs to make sure that it uses the correct value. If there is still a difference then open up the configuration file for HWINFO and make sure it is using the same value as ThrottleStop is using. When TJ Max is not correct, the reported core temperatures will not be correct. When both programs are using the same TJ Max values, the reported temperatures should be close to identical. The 3rd Gen CPUs are generally set to 105C.

Manufacturers are taking all the fun out of being an enthusiast these days. I had a look at the MSR Finder data. There are 2 MSR registers that can limit the PP0 and PP1 power consumption but they are not being used. I looked at a few other things but I can not see anything obvious. Whatever is limiting you to the 34 multiplier is outside my level of understanding.

When long term full load testing, does ThrottleStop show an exact multiplier like 34.00? What does ThrottleStop report for power consumption? Is there any difference between your tests when using TS Bench or Prime95? Just curious. Dufus has a few more tricks up his sleeve. Hope he returns to NBR some day. Your CPU and chipset support overclocking. A bios that disabled the lock bit, MSR 0x194 bit[20], might be enough for you to do some overclocking. Can you run my MSR Finder tool and take a snapshot of your CPU registers when your CPU is being throttled? MSR Finder http://www.mediafire.com/download/b2tg2yfjt27csy3/MSRFinder.zip You can Copy and Paste it to www.pastebin.com or anywhere convenient.

Thanks Tech Inferno Fan for the screen shots. The 3rd Gen Core i7 mobile Quads with a 45W TDP use default long and short turbo power limits of 45W and 56.25W (45W + 25%). ThrottleStop only reports whole numbers. The maximum time limit is 64 seconds, same as the 35W TDP CPUs. The maximum Long term power limit is 60W and the maximum short term turbo power limit is 72W for the 45W TDP CPUs. These are the maximums listed in the Intel datasheet so seem like a good place to start. ThrottleStop 6.10 correctly reports that your CPU supports +4 bins of overclocking. The problem is that it also reports that the Overclocking BIns feature is locked by the bios. The lock bit is located in MSR 0x194 - Bit[20]. You would need a modified bios to unlock this and you also need the appropriate chipset that supports overclocking. I think Dufus has a trick where he can get this overclocking working on the Intel chipsets that don't support overclocking. Unfortunately he is not available at the moment to tell me more about this. Because this feature is locked on your motherboard, his MaxMulti program is not going to help you. After you adjust the TDP values, if you are not getting the full 35 multi when full load testing, try setting the Power Balance to CPU 31 - GPU 0. Just do some quick testing with TS Bench and Prime 95 to see what sort of multis you get. The Intel turbo feature is based on a time weighted average. When set to 28 seconds, this does not guarantee that you will get the full 28 seconds at the Short term turbo power limit. If you are significantly over the Long term limit then the amount of time you actually get at the higher limit is reduced. Dufus also showed me another bit of magic that controls the TDP Level Control. Your CPU does not use this feature but there might be a hidden register that overrides the power limits that you can access in ThrottleStop. I am going to see what I can do with this new info but I might need the expert to come and help me out. Here is some of his multiplier magic. Thanks Dufus. MaxMulti https://www.mediafire.com/?ruis7l5f4bs1am5 It's possible that your 65W adapter simply doesn't have enough power to run everything at full speed.

Can you guys post some screen shots of how you have ThrottleStop set up? The screen shot on the previous page showed that it was in monitoring mode and wasn't even turned on. ThrottleStop isn't going to be able to do anything to help the cause in monitoring mode. For the Dual and Quad Core mobile CPUs with a 35W TDP, Intel lists the maximum turbo time period as 64 seconds and ThrottleStop confirms that. When adjusting the ThrottleStop turbo time limit, I would not go beyond that value. The time adjuster was left unlocked so users can experiment but it is best to start with the datasheet maximums and go from there. Going beyond the maximum might not work correctly at all. The default long and short turbo power limits are listed as 35W and 43.75W (35W + 25%). The maximum for these are shown in the Intel datasheet as 48W and 56W. Those are the maximum values so don't go beyond those values when setting the turbo power limits. If you are having some CPU performance issues then turn off your other monitoring software and run ThrottleStop with the Log File option checked so I can have a look at some numbers. ThrottleStop might not be able to help you out but you have to know how to properly set it up. I am interested to see some ThrottleStop CPU data when the bus load choking is going on. ThrottleStop 6.10 beta 1 http://www.mediafire.com/download/i4jp6b8uk1cza5w/ThrottleStop_610b1.zip The latest beta fixes a few minor things and maintains the Power Balance values which can be handy when using the Intel GPU. Dufus on NBR recently showed me another way for CPUs to reduce the maximum multiplier. He wrote a quick little tool called MaxMulti which is available here. http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrades/531329-throttlestop-guide-176.html#post9410230 This can allow overclocking of the partially unlocked CPUs like the 3720QM, 3820QM, 4700MQ, etc and up but the chipset also has to support this overclocking feature for it to work. There wasn't much feedback about this on NBR but MaxMulti definitely worked correctly on my unlocked 3570K. I am hoping to build this feature into a future version of ThrottleStop. Thanks Dufus.

No one can guarantee you anything. Without testing 1001 Y510p laptops for a few years, no one in a forum is going to be able to predict the failure rate or what component might fail first. The chance of your CPU failing is very tiny in my opinion but something else on your motherboard or your power adapter could fail due to the extra power consumption and heat that running with BD PROCHOT disabled is going to cause. I think the reason manufacturers do this is to avoid cranky customers phoning them to bitch and complain that their new laptop is too hot. I guess they would rather reduce performance for enthusiasts that are not smart enough to get their 4700HQ to run at the speed and temperature that Intel designed it to run at. Enjoy your new laptop. By the time it blows up, there will probably be something newer and faster and cheaper available so no worries.

Intel designed their CPUs to continue to use full Turbo Boost right up until the thermal throttling point. I am not sure why you keep saying that it is not supposed to be used all the time. As long as the CPU is operating within the power and temperature limits set by Intel then yes, it should be using full Turbo Boost. octiceps: Nice to see ThrottleStop being used and that you are getting or trying to get all of the Intel intended performance out of your CPU. Some laptop manufacturers have decided to limit their laptops with some ridiculous throttling schemes rather than spend the time and money designing some better cooling solutions. As long as your CPU is operating under the 105C thermal throttling temperature, Intel says that it is at a safe operating temperature. Intel sets high throttling limits because they fully believe in their CPUs ability to run 100% reliably at these temperatures, including full turbo boost. Edit: Here's an example. Both the CPU and Intel GPU are hot as hell and both continue to run at full speed. http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6216/torturetest.png It's not Intel that dreams up all these CPU limitations. It's laptop manufacturers that could all use a kick in the ass. Both are over 100C and both are running at full speed and then some. Fantastic technology.

The LOG word in the RealTemp - Thermal Status area confirms that your CPU is reaching the maximum safe operating temperature and is thermal throttling (slowing down) to protect itself from damage. Intel designs this safety feature into all of their CPUs. There is not any software available that I know of that can disable this protection and that's a good thing. Turbo Boost is definitely working correctly. When 1 core is active, the maximum turbo multiplier is 34 and when 2 cores are active the maximum turbo multiplier is 32. In your Mid-Test screen shot, that is exactly what you are getting. You will never see the full 34 multiplier in ThrottleStop because there are always hundreds of Windows background threads running that randomly wake up both cores which reduces the multiplier. The ThrottleStop TS Bench is not as demanding as running Prime95. I am sure that your CPU would be doing a lot more throttling when running Prime95 so you would be seeing a lot less than the 32 multiplier. That's normal. It's protecting your CPU from going KA-BOOM!!! I agree with Khenglish. Building some sort of shroud between your fan and the heatsink fins should help get more heat out of your laptop case and away from the CPU. I have also seen some users attach little RAM heatsinks to the CPU heatsink to try and improve the cooling if you have space for this. If you have installed the heatsink correctly then it is looking like this laptop heatsink is inadequate. It might be good enough for many applications but when fully loaded and both cores are pushed hard, it can not keep your CPU from thermal throttling. Fujitsu is not the only manufacturer that uses thermal throttling to control temperatures at the expense of performance. Most casual users have no idea that they are not getting the performance that they paid for so manufacturers have been able to get away with this again and again.

NoteBookCheck tested a Fujitsu T901 and they found some throttling problems when fully loaded. Review Fujitsu Lifebook T901 Convertible/Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews The maximum safe operating temperature for a Core i7-2620M is 100C according to Intel. Intel typically sets the shut down temperature to 25C beyond the thermal throttling temperature. Your CPU is running hot but there is no need for it to shut down at 100C. It should throttle and slow down at this temperature which is usually enough to prevent it from reaching the thermal shut down temperature. Software should not be showing you any core temperatures beyond 100C. Intel's 2nd Generation mobile Core i sensors stop increasing when the CPU reaches the thermal throttling temperature at 100C. Can you post a screen shot of how you have ThrottleStop setup? Post a picture of ThrottleStop while you are in the middle of a simple benchmark like a single thread of the TS Bench. This will show if Turbo Boost is working correctly. It is normal for Turbo Boost to get disabled if the CPU starts running too hot but it is also possible that Fujitsu permanently disabled Turbo Boost because the cooling solution they are using is inadequate. If the Fujitsu chassis is struggling to cool a Dual Core then forget about ever installing a Quad core. Some manufacturers design their laptops to use a very slow CPU fan speed to reduce noise. The result is sky high temperatures and you may not be able to run your CPU at its rated speed. Deceptive marketing but there is not much you can do other than thoroughly test whatever you buy and send it back immediately if it can not live up to its specs. You can also try running RealTemp. Look in the Thermal Status area. If it says OK then that means your CPU has not reached the thermal throttling temperature since you turned it on. If it says LOG, that means it throttled at least once and this was logged within the CPU. If RealTemp says HOT, that means thermal throttling is in progress. Intel thermal throttling works very quickly so you usually need some major problems before you see HOT. RealTemp T|I Edition Downloads

Open up the ThrottleStop TRL window? What is the maximum multiplier that it shows when all 4 cores are active? Does it show 31? Your ThrottleStop screen shot shows 4 active cores and a 31 multiplier so that looks right. If you were running at 800 MHz then maybe you could complain about being throttled. 3093 MHz is the speed this CPU should be running at when fully loaded. What is your average C0% when your CPU is idle? If that is high then find out what tasks are loading your CPU and get rid of them before benching. Edit: Here are the specs for your CPU: http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_i7/Intel-Core%20i7-3610QM%20Mobile%20processor.html

Just for the record, ThrottleStop tries to maintain whatever TDP values you set in ThrottleStop. If you make a change using XTU, if ThrottleStop 5.10 is running or the next time you start it, ThrottleStop will use the previous Turbo Power settings that you saved. Both XTU and ThrottleStop are writing data to the same register in the CPU. If you are using both programs at the same time then the results might be unpredictable. You would be better off using one program or the other.

Do you fully understand how a 920XM CPU works and do you fully understand how ThrottleStop works? If you need to learn some more then start by running 8 threads of wPrime and do some benchmark testing with that. Make sure ThrottleStop is not in Monitoring mode. Set the TDP and TDC appropriately. Settings of 55-55 are not going to let your CPU perform to its full potential. Whether ThrottleStop is on or in Monitoring Mode; it is going to take whatever TDP-TDC settings you were using or you previously saved and it is going to set the CPU to those settings. The TDP-TDC will not change until after you reboot or you open up ThrottleStop and make a change. Post a screen shot in the middle of a full load wPrime test so we can see what multipliers your CPU are using and if it is throttling during the middle of this test. If there is no throttling in this test then start testing with MSI Kombustor. We need to see some log data with the TDP-TDC set much higher and with ThrottleStop enabled.

Make sure you installed the heatsink properly too. It sounds like it is overheating so when you boot up, it reaches the thermal limit and your laptop reboots.

The end of your log shows chipset clock modulation being used to throttle your CPU. As ssj92 mentioned, set that to 100% in ThrottleStop and make sure you have ThrottleStop turned on to help avoid this type of throttling. Your temps are fine. If this helps then you should be able to raise your multis back up to a more respectable level. Avoid any BCLK overclocking while you are playing with the multipliers. I would still like to see a screen shot of ThrottleStop so I can see how you have it setup.

Post a screen shot of how you have ThrottleStop setup and post a log file while you are benching.

The final 3DMark reported MHz is not the best way to judge what speed your CPU is running at during the benchmark. Kind of piss poor actually. Run ThrottleStop with the Log File option selected and you will have a very accurate record of what your CPU has been up to during a run. If you don't know how to read the log file, upload it to www.pastebin.com and post a link here so I can have a look. Send me a PM to remind me if I forget. The M15x with a 920XM has some significant throttling problems. Getting the most out of this combo is a balancing act. For maximum performance, you need to be right on the edge of throttling without going over.

Yes. ThrottleStop 5.00 added support for Intel's 3rd Generation Ivy Bridge CPUs. It should work exactly the same as ThrottleStop 4.10.