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Going to test clevo 980m in alienware m17x R4, m18x R2, AW17

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MUX is there in AW18/AW17 to either

1. GPUs enabled, IGP disabled. No optimus

2. GPUs disabled, IGP enabled. No optimus

With this vbios from Eurocom it have now changed to:

1. GPU enabled. IGP enabled. Optimus.

2. GPU disabled, IGP enabled. No Optimus

The only thing MUX does is switch between function "1." and "2."

The only reason I wonder if MUX work or not with this new update from Eurocom is if function "2." would work since the vbios have Optimus function but MUX have disabled the GPU. What then? Will it crash because it cant find a dedicated GPU or will it just use the IGP anyway and stick with it?

If it crash MUX doesnt work with Eurocom's vbios and we will need a Dell vbios to remove Optimus from AW17 with 980M to make MUX work again. We will also need this Dell vbios for AW18 with GTX 980M SLI since the vbios from Eurocom contains Optimus but SLI doesnt work with Optimus.

Wrong. Optimus relies on MUXless switching. If you have a MUX, you do not have optimus. You have what is called "fixed switching". End of story. Optimus runs on a muxless dynamic switching scheme, which is impossible to have on an Nvidia card on a MUX design. If you are running optimus, you are dynamically routing the video either to the iGPU or the dGPU, without restarting, though AMD managed to achieve fixed switching without restarts. If you have a MUX, you have to restart to change from iGPU to dGPU if you are running on an nVidia card on the MXM slot.

Have a look at the diagram here

post-6813-14494998683379_thumb.png

The Alienware 18 is the only system Alienware has that uses a MUX switch. The Alienware 14 an 17 use a muxless design, which is why they both support optimus.

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Wrong. Optimus relies on MUXless switching. If you have a MUX, you do not have optimus. You have what is called "fixed switching". End of story. Optimus runs on a muxless dynamic switching scheme, which is impossible to have on an Nvidia card on a MUX design. If you are running optimus, you are dynamically routing the video either to the iGPU or the dGPU, without restarting, though AMD managed to achieve fixed switching without restarts. If you have a MUX, you have to restart to change from iGPU to dGPU if you are running on an nVidia card on the MXM slot.

Have a look at the diagram here

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13059[/ATTACH]

The Alienware 18 is the only system Alienware has that uses a MUX switch. The Alienware 14 an 17 use a muxless design, which is why they both support optimus.

You are also wrong. A mux does not rule out optimus. A standard optimus system with no mux always has the iGPU routed to the display, and the dGPU sends data to the iGPU over the PCI-E link. The mux present in AW systems allow sending the iGPU or the dGPU to the display. This is true for all AW systems m17x R3, m18x R1 and later. If you route the dGPU (called PEG in the BIOS), optimus is off because the iGPU is disabled. If you route the iGPU (called iGFX in the BIOS) then optimus is enabled and the dGPU outputs display data to the iGPU over the PCI-E link just link on a standard system without a mux.

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You are also wrong. A mux does not rule out optimus. A standard optimus system with no mux always has the iGPU routed to the display, and the dGPU sends data to the iGPU over the PCI-E link. The mux present in AW systems allow sending the iGPU or the dGPU to the display. This is true for all AW systems m17x R3, m18x R1 and later. If you route the dGPU (called PEG in the BIOS), optimus is off because the iGPU is disabled. If you route the iGPU (called iGFX in the BIOS) then optimus is enabled and the dGPU outputs display data to the iGPU over the PCI-E link just link on a standard system without a mux.

How would a MUX setup work with optimus then? The definition of a MUX is to disable one GPU and switch to another, unless you have a setup to keep both GPUs enabled and switch betwen the two.

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Optimus relies on MUXless switching. If you have a MUX, you do not have optimus. You have what is called "fixed switching". End of story. Optimus runs on a muxless dynamic switching scheme, which is impossible to have on an Nvidia card on a MUX design. If you are running optimus, you are dynamically routing the video either to the iGPU or the dGPU, without restarting, though AMD managed to achieve fixed switching without restarts. If you have a MUX, you have to restart to change from iGPU to dGPU if you are running on an nVidia card on the MXM slot.

Have a look at the diagram here

The Alienware 18 is the only system Alienware has that uses a MUX switch. The Alienware 14 an 17 use a muxless design, which is why they both support optimus.

You are giving me a headache lol. AW17 should have MUX. Both IGP and dGPU is connected to the display through a MUX. AW17 can enable or disable IGP. AW18 can enable or disable the GPUs. That's the difference.

I also think you dont understand what mux chip does.

Andithreover, this is not correct. For AW18 with sli, you are right.

But for AW17, it's different.

1. GPUs enabled, IGP disabled. No optimus

2. GPUs enabled, IGP enabled. YES optimus.

Without unlocked bios, AW17 only can swith 1 <-> 2 now.

For m17x R4 with unlocked bios by svl7,

1. GPUs disabled, IGP enabled. No optimus

2. GPUs enabled, IGP enabled. Yes optimus

3. GPUs enabled, IGP disabled. No optimus

4. GPUs disabled, IGP disabled. No screen :(

MUX is not what you think.

It does not work as a swtich. Fn+F5 or F7 works as a switch. It's just pre-made by dell for us.

OK so it is a little different than AW18 then. Basically you enable or disable Optimus with FN+F5 (MUX) with AW17 if I understand it correctly.

I got a reply from Eurocom. As of now, GTX 980M with AW17 only work with Optimus enabled. Using FN+F5 and switching Optimus Off will still not work.

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Hellow guys!

i have m17x r4 and i want to buy 970m. I understanding what it will be work only in optimus mode at this moment. is it work on stock bios or only mod bios? Can i write dell bios into clevo card, when dell make a bios? Why you all displeased optimus mode? Also i have old dell presision m6600 who support optimus too. will be work 970m/980m at m6600? have a chance? 780m does not work on it :(

PS sorry for my language.

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Yay great news indeed :)

Btw, Eurocom is beginning to work on 980M for AW18 tomorrow.

Nice. Nice checking.

[emoji38]

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@Cloudfire

Yes without a new vbios, they should have the same results as I have.

Hope it is fixed soon. :(

@Paolo11

I dont like that facebook post.

It's meaningless to use 980m under optimus.

It's even meaningless to use optimus in alienware.

If I have to use optimus in alienware, I am selling this or I wont upgrade to 980m.

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@Cloudfire

Yes without a new vbios, they should have the same results as I have.

Hope it is fixed soon. :(

@Paolo11

I dont like that facebook post.

It's meaningless to use 980m under optimus.

It's even meaningless to use optimus in alienware.

If I have to use optimus in alienware, I am selling this or I wont upgrade to 980m.

Is that optimus to begin with? I asked them to do gaming benchmarks and show it to us.

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How would a MUX setup work with optimus then? The definition of a MUX is to disable one GPU and switch to another, unless you have a setup to keep both GPUs enabled and switch betwen the two.

A mux does not mean you disable a GPU. It just means you select an input to route to a display.

When routing the dGPU to the display the BIOS will disable the iGPU because there is no reason to have it on since it's the weaker GPU and isn't driving a display. It's turned off not due to a need for having it off, but for a lack of need of having it on. When routing the iGPU to the display (optimus mode) the dGPU is left on so it can render images for the iGPU to display, but since it is not driving a display it can shut down when idle. There is no switching, just offloading of rendering duty. This is exactly as if there was no mux and the iGPU was routed permanently to the display.

Multiplexer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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A mux does not mean you disable a GPU. It just means you select an input to route to a display.

When routing the dGPU to the display the BIOS will disable the iGPU because there is no reason to have it on since it's the weaker GPU and isn't driving a display. It's turned off not due to a need for having it off, but for a lack of need of having it on. When routing the iGPU to the display (optimus mode) the dGPU is left on so it can render images for the iGPU to display, but since it is not driving a display it can shut down when idle. There is no switching, just offloading of rendering duty. This is exactly as if there was no mux and the iGPU was routed permanently to the display.

Multiplexer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are correct, you must forgive me. I was pairing the BIOS deactivation of the iGPU and the MUX as one piece instead of listing them separate.

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Well, i see a lot of people here doesn't like optimus, why ? I have got the older system in my acer 7530G, it was called Hybrid Sli with an 9100mG and 9600M GS, that was working without too much problem , only on vista ... When i start a game a little black screen and the 9600 run but when i go back with alt+tab from a game to desktop in a game it stay on 9600m. It was a pretty cool feature actually.

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Well, i see a lot of people here doesn't like optimus, why ? I have got the older system in my acer 7530G, it was called Hybrid Sli with an 9100mG and 9600M GS, that was working without too much problem , only on vista ... When i start a game a little black screen and the 9600 run but when i go back with alt+tab from a game to desktop in a game it stay on 9600m. It was a pretty cool feature actually.
Yup Hybrid Sli, a great technology that was destroyed by Intel's decision to go on-die with their own GPU. The bottom fell out of the low end GPU market so hybrid SLi had no future. NV stopped supporting it some time ago so you should compare older drivers to see if the feature gives you any advantage over a later one ;).

Now the two OEM's come up with something in their drivers to allow switching but not pairing (that has to be with an NV chip), Optimus for NV and Enduro for AMD.

From what I am reading so far I'm SOL on a 980m but it is obvious that something changed considerably altering the way the technology interfaces with the hardware :(.

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Yup Hybrid Sli, a great technology that was destroyed by Intel's decision to go on-die with their own GPU. The bottom fell out of the low end GPU market so hybrid SLi had no future. NV stopped supporting it some time ago so you should compare older drivers to see if the feature gives you any advantage over a later one ;).

Now the two OEM's come up with something in their drivers to allow switching but not pairing (that has to be with an NV chip), Optimus for NV and Enduro for AMD.

From what I am reading so far I'm SOL on a 980m but it is obvious that something changed considerably altering the way the technology interfaces with the hardware :(.

You should be able to use the 980M just fine in the M17x R4. We support optimus switching, should work just fine.

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You should be able to use the 980M just fine in the M17x R4. We support optimus switching, should work just fine.
Not with a 120hz panel and the iGPU not even visible to the bios! It used to be far easier to upgrade the 120hz models as they do not need any bios messing but it seems that it's not the case with the 980m. I'll just have to keep an eye out for someone to try it...

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Not with a 120hz panel and the iGPU not even visible to the bios! It used to be far easier to upgrade the 120hz models as they do not need any bios messing but it seems that it's not the case with the 980m. I'll just have to keep an eye out for someone to try it...

Ah, that sucks. Forgot you had a 120Hz panel.

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So with this vbios that currently just works on Optimus mode with Alienware 17. Do you think it will be an issue with Alienware 18 that have no Optimus? Full crash?

Would a Clevo PW5xx with 980M SLI that have no Optimus or Aorus X7 with 970M SLI with no Optimus be a better bet to get the vbios from?

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So with this vbios that currently just works on Optimus mode with Alienware 17. Do you think it will be an issue with Alienware 18 that have no Optimus? Full crash?

I have tested as I told you.

It does not work both in m18x R2 and AW18.

8 beeps no POST.

Again, it's simple.

No optimus, no 980m period.

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I have tested as I told you.

It does not work both in m18x R2 and AW18.

Again, it's simple.

No optimus, no 980m period.

But you havent tried the vbios from Clevo P570WM in the AW18. Its missing Optimus :)

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But you havent tried the vbios from Clevo P570WM in the AW18. Its missing Optimus :)

There are only two clevo vbios.

I've done both.

p570wm has either v12 or v10. I have tested those and v0A which is MSI's.

p375SM-A is missing optimus too.

Both of them have the same vbios.

I've mentioned this earlier of this thread.

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Well thats very strange. So you tested both Clevo with Optimus and one without Optimus.

Why the heck isnt it working on AW18? Is it some sort of block in the system BIOS?

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Well thats very strange. So you tested both Clevo with Optimus and one without Optimus.

Why the heck isnt it working on AW18? Is it some sort of block in the system BIOS?

I hate to say things again and again so please read the thread from the begining. It will help you alot.

In a recent screenshot of p570wm which was posted yesterday in notebookreview.com, it had v10 vbios.

The current vbios are not meant to have or not have optimus function.

They both work in optimus notebook and non-optimus notebook for clevo.

It's just that they dont work for us.

(there is no such thing as "optimus one" or "one without optimus")

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