I need to switch to these forums almost exclusively! (Blog/Rant)

[daveh98]

Hey guys/gals,

Man the NBR m18x forum is getting extremely frustrating and I literally am going to remove myself almost entirely from that specific forum (for mental health reasons). Shaden seems to be the new "expert" on the forum posting almost entirely false information in his sig and no one seems to care about it and the amount of new members chomp at the bits to try to compete with his "reported" scores. I am by no means a computer expert; just a long time enthusiast. To have people with non xm chips increase FSB and think that nets a 1ghz increase in speed is complete ridiculous. Why some refuse to acknowledge the simple math of FSB x multiplier = speed is beyond my feeble brain. In this user's case a 2630qm is 2.0ghz (20) x 1.07 = 2.13ghz. Obviously on non extreme processors that speed will not be constant due to CPU limiters. But you can just put " 2630 OC @ 3ghz" in your sig and read the chest beating and flawed reasoning...yawn. I have no problem with some of the seasoned members benching and their knowledge of overclocking; but the sheer number of newbies simply trying to "press buttons" and "tick options" others have already done and subsequently becoming "pro" is vomit inducing. I think the forums are just encouraging people that have no clue about what they are doing to their computers is just a tick too close to completely frying their motherboards and components. A moderator even recommended said person to write an overclocking guide and the action potential for vomiting initiated. Yes, this is simply a rant but a rant I would not be able to do over there and have nothing better to do as I concurrently watch the Lions dominate on TV, listen to a blog about the awesomeness of the Nexus Prime coming out and post on the webz.

So anyways my 6990's should be coming in tomorrow (pending no further delays) and I will be putting my 6970's up for sale soon. I am still on the fence regarding upgrading to a 2920xm. My old rig (M17x R2 920xm Xfire 5870s) is going to my stb ex (long story) and I do miss TS and the power of the extreme chip. However, I don't do anything very intensive on the m18x other than gaming and my career does not require anything but MS Office type use. So I think the 2720 is plenty for processing gaming correct? Aforementioned Said member was quite adamant that there was a "10-15FPS gain at stock" on his new 2920xm in BF3 (so 2.2ghz Vs 2.5) yet another member posted literature showed no FPS increase with almost any modern CPU. So what do you all think....upgrade for about 650 for a 2920 or enjoy a 2720+6990CF goodness? Well I guess this is a long-winded post to say I think I will be spending more time here and I hope to make these forums a bit more lively...and promise not to post some OC Trixx Vantage scores and claim to be an overclocking sophist God:cocksure:

Edited October 11, 2011 by daveh98

[Jimbo]

But..... but.......... I am an overclocking god.....

:77:

Stick with the 2720, whoever it was that posted almost no difference is 100% right, there is NO WAY it added 10-15fps unless his previous CPU was a 486DX2.

EDIT: Just realised my score remains unbeaten, despite my GPUs not clocking very high (compared to some). :D

Edited October 11, 2011 by Jimbo

[Brian]

You know I saw the exchange between you and Shaden on NBR and I agreed with your position. My stance on a lot of people overclocking notebooks has been the same since the M17x-R2 days: You can't just tick a few buttons, blow A/C at your computer and proclaim to be some hardcore overclocker. Anyone with a few minutes to spare to watch a youtube tutorial can pull off the same thing. The true test of an enthusiast is someone that discovers previously unknown knowledge that facilitates higher performance (e.g. discovering how to unlock the fsb in the M17x-R2 or the creation of ThrottleStop).

I'm not demeaning overclockers, I used to be one myself and still take part occasionally for fun but given what a limited sandbox a notebook brings with it, the room for true overclocking like the desktop is severely curtailed. The 580M throttle discussion group on NBR gave me a nice laugh. It just ended up in a bunch of guys arguing like I thought and their conveying their frustrations to some AW engineer won't change anything. Dell bean counters dictate that these things work at spec and nothing beyond because it hurts their warranty underwriters bottom line and that's not smart business for Dell. Even Clevo scoffs at overclocking and limits their systems.

[daveh98]

You know I saw the exchange between you and Shaden on NBR and I agreed with your position. My stance on a lot of people overclocking notebooks has been the same since the M17x-R2 days: You can't just tick a few buttons, blow A/C at your computer and proclaim to be some hardcore overclocker. Anyone with a few minutes to spare to watch a youtube tutorial can pull off the same thing. The true test of an enthusiast is someone that discovers previously unknown knowledge that facilitates higher performance (e.g. discovering how to unlock the fsb in the M17x-R2 or the creation of ThrottleStop).

I'm not demeaning overclockers, I used to be one myself and still take part occasionally for fun but given what a limited sandbox a notebook brings with it, the room for true overclocking like the desktop is severely curtailed. The 580M throttle discussion group on NBR gave me a nice laugh. It just ended up in a bunch of guys arguing like I thought and their conveying their frustrations to some AW engineer won't change anything. Dell bean counters dictate that these things work at spec and nothing beyond because it hurts their warranty underwriters bottom line and that's not smart business for Dell. Even Clevo scoffs at overclocking and limits their systems.

Oh man you don't even know the frustration! I didn't bother responding to his reply because it is talking to someone who would actually benefit from taking the cotton out of his ears and putting it in his mouth. The irony of having to resort to using an authoritative position "I am a professor of philosophy and politics" by switching logic stances just had me give up. First, I have never heard of a professor teaching philosophy and politics but I digress. Secondly, you are absolutely right, people watch 2 minutes of footage and then exaggerate "hours" of stability testing and research. I have no problem with someone being ignorant to me. However, like I said in the BF3 post, it is uncalled for to be advertising completely false information on a highly visited forum. A few extra "ticks" to completely toast a GPU/CPU and motherboard will not be received well by members just trying to follow the leader. Again, like you stated, these are not desktops and in ways, "bean counters" are calculating bottom line dollars and are purposely limiting CPUs and GPUs. Gone are the Q6600 days of overclocking to reach better performance than the extreme edition. I am sure the 2630 on up are completely capable of much more but that would not allow the sale of much higher flagship intel products. But to think that a 2630 "OC to 3ghz" is improving games is not only ignorant; it's completely false overclocks. Mharidas rightly pointed out the inaccuracy of reporting software and the Dr. just thinks his shit don't stink. I just wish other members would realize the truth about the CPUs:

1. They are fine as is for games

2. Overclocking is only increasing in the order of mhz NOT ghz

3. It is playing at the risk of very little ROI and high risk of frying other components of the system

But the mods seem to love the ignorant back and forth and even buy into the hype of the "scores" as I am sure that is bringing a lot of attention to not only the site but the forum specifically. Ahhh...I feel better now. Peace and order are restored to the world. Now if only I could have Shaden teach me how he overclocked his Galaxy S II that is also brightly posted in his sig....that would be soo "l33t."

[mw86]

Oh man you don't even know the frustration! I didn't bother responding to his reply because it is talking to someone who would actually benefit from taking the cotton out of his ears and putting it in his mouth. The irony of having to resort to using an authoritative position "I am a professor of philosophy and politics" by switching logic stances just had me give up. First, I have never heard of a professor teaching philosophy and politics but I digress. Secondly, you are absolutely right, people watch 2 minutes of footage and then exaggerate "hours" of stability testing and research. I have no problem with someone being ignorant to me. However, like I said in the BF3 post, it is uncalled for to be advertising completely false information on a highly visited forum. A few extra "ticks" to completely toast a GPU/CPU and motherboard will not be received well by members just trying to follow the leader. Again, like you stated, these are not desktops and in ways, "bean counters" are calculating bottom line dollars and are purposely limiting CPUs and GPUs. Gone are the Q6600 days of overclocking to reach better performance than the extreme edition. I am sure the 2630 on up are completely capable of much more but that would not allow the sale of much higher flagship intel products. But to think that a 2630 "OC to 3ghz" is improving games is not only ignorant; it's completely false overclocks. Mharidas rightly pointed out the inaccuracy of reporting software and the Dr. just thinks his shit don't stink. I just wish other members would realize the truth about the CPUs:

1. They are fine as is for games

2. Overclocking is only increasing in the order of mhz NOT ghz

3. It is playing at the risk of very little ROI and high risk of frying other components of the system

But the mods seem to love the ignorant back and forth and even buy into the hype of the "scores" as I am sure that is bringing a lot of attention to not only the site but the forum specifically. Ahhh...I feel better now. Peace and order are restored to the world. Now if only I could have Shaden teach me how he overclocked his Galaxy S II that is also brightly posted in his sig....that would be soo "l33t."

I agree with everything you have said with the exception to I can say you can go over a 1ghz increase in the XM of sandybridge mobile even on stock volts and in real world usage some increase in speed will yield higher performance in everyday tasks on the computer. NO games will show a huge increase in fps for higher frequencies... much agreed. Those types of things are brag fests and shows nothing of a persons knowledge on the subject whatsoever. Unlike a true overclocker that one would see in a stereotypical way of just gunning for the highest benchmark score, I try to test the limits and actually test for stability. I have done hundreds of test runs myself in many stress tests working on knowing more. Many in the forum where appearance triumphs over knowledge... just hope they survive their bench at the outer limits and post their score bragging this is what I got... what more is there to say... why waste words. I personally post screenshots with meaning... like Brian mentions.... that show something unknown. Someone like me is not just thrown in some category of overclockers that chase some score to brag about... I chase the pursuit of knowlege. If one does it in a logical way... one can use the available headroom in the chips that goes untapped and can see a real worlds benefit in apps... my browser responds faster at higher single core speeds... etc. If one just applies logic to testing we can set a nice overclock that is always stable and that one can stand by. If you can't pass any of those major stress tests on your hardware overclocked on gpu and cpu... you really can't claim that performance... Using the unlocked bios I have had good chance to adjust more than I should be able to and can really see a large improvement in performance being made for others using it. Glad you made this thread. You are exactly right cpus change their operating speeds today many times a second and can't truly be monitored with 100% accuracy... but apps like Throttle stop can report at 8 times a second what your cpu was operating at and accurately enough as compared to cpu-z or most others like "Intel Turbo Boost Monitor" which very inaccurately displays the speeds. Don't bother with caring if they act like some single person is all that because of benchmarks... its not worth your time. if you haven't already check out some of the improvements on non-xm and xm for m17x r3, m14x, m18x... tdp can be raised on non-xm which does actually mean you could set that chip you mention... to that 3ghz and keep it running that. I think the stock voltage on the on sandybridge mobile is the same between the quad core models. What I mean to say is the xm on stock volts can overclock by a few hundred mhz quad and about 1ghz on single core all on stock volts... I think the operating volts are very close and should mean these 2600, 2700, 2800, chips should be able to have enough volts to survive their set turbo boost speed limits for their long term limits by raising their tdp to the same values for short and long. so in your example the user is very funny they claim 2630qm at 3 ghz... they are ignorant. But the math you showed 2630qm is 2.0ghz (20) x 1.07 = 2.13ghz (you mean 107mhz baseclock) is correct and if then they applied the tweak we have discussed in this forum then they could claim 2630qm 2.13ghz... but if not on stock they can't claim that full time like you said as turbo factors limit it... to be exact its the amps and watt limits ot tdc and tdc... (regarding heat as the other limiting factor but left to the users responsibility). So it is now more than ever we will probably see people use the unlocked limits of these systems on xm and non-xm to improve their long term performance so their chips don't just clock down because their long turbo limits were too low. You can check out my guide, I continually try to add to it and show new limts and capabalities of hardware and am willing to try out any tests to reveal real world use... just let me know and I'm ready to try it. Its funny to make fun of the circus clowns of the benching community that brag of their scores but have no idea what a stability test is. Overclockers have hope you know... here we have plenty with a lot of knowledge. Like Brian helping with the setfsb overclocking and the use of throttle stop to overclock the 900 xm series and raise tdp/tdc. Overclocking can be a very scientific methodology and those that think of it as a bragging contest of mines better than yours is missing the point. These processors of today overclock themselves when being utilized to meet the demands of the task at hand... thats logical and that makes all of us a little bit of an overclocker lol.

Edited October 11, 2011 by mw86

[wbabt007]

Wow nice thread, Happy to still be around, keep up the good work

[iPhantomhive]

But..... but.......... I am an overclocking god.....

:77:

Stick with the 2720, whoever it was that posted almost no difference is 100% right, there is NO WAY it added 10-15fps unless his previous CPU was a 486DX2.

EDIT: Just realised my score remains unbeaten, despite my GPUs not clocking very high (compared to some). :D

Bow to the OC god~

[mw86]

Bow to the OC god~

Ha ha Jimbos still got plenty of competition from me... keeps us going lol! @Jimbo I am still going to score close to your 6990m's soon just haven't had time to test my gpu's I work on cpu until I know all there is then I go crazy on the gpus... lol one day youll just see "the score" ha ha lol and next year i'l be building a Ivy Bridge tower so I can compete against your tower... i'll have to buy a phase exchange too... how much was yours?

[Jimbo]

LOL please nobody think I'm actually serious, I just enjoy pushing the hell out of things.

My cascade cooler ~$2800 USD, a phase change is around $900 for anyone in the US Cooler Express 2011 Super Single Evaporator CPU Cooling Unit - All Sockets (478/ 754 / 775 / 1155 / 1156 / 1366 / 939 / 940 / AM2 / Xeon) - FrozenCPU.com

[mw86]

LOL please nobody think I'm actually serious, I just enjoy pushing the hell out of things.

My cascade cooler ~$2800 USD, a phase change is around $900 for anyone in the US Cooler Express 2011 Super Single Evaporator CPU Cooling Unit - All Sockets (478/ 754 / 775 / 1155 / 1156 / 1366 / 939 / 940 / AM2 / Xeon) - FrozenCPU.com

Same here Jimbo... you help me push harder... its awesome... need ya in the M18x section lol... Amazing...but you had to pay $2800 that sucks. i could go for that its amazing. hey thats the one I posted lol its the only one I have seen lol... other than yours...

[Jimbo]

Mine is different, it's two of those units combined with some other stuff.

Phase change - Single compressor ~ -45C

Cascade - Multiple compressors ~ -110C

Plus mine is hand built by the guy that built almost all the world record holding coolers, it's on another level to coolerexpress (they're good too though).

[DR650SE]

I definately got a kick out of this thread. Agree with much of it too. If I were a mod over at NBR, I'd be a MOD that got banned. I'd be deleting posts left and right, and swinging my ban hammer like Sammy Sosa!.

[iPhantomhive]

@DR650SE you were the guy who helped me with my m17x-R2 when I first joined NBR

[Brian]

BTW I can see how someone could write [email protected] GHz because mine clocks to 2.6-2.7 GHz and stays there for the entire 1024Mb Wprime 1.55 test. I haven't toyed with the unlocked bios yet, is it possible to raise the tdp on the non-xm chips with it?

[Shaden]

Ah vitriol, and misrepresentation ... what else could I expect from you @daveh98 ? I mean really,you are so frustrated you have to come somewhere else to bitch about, almost exclusively me ? Even though people on the threat pointed out in much more moderate terms that there is some truth to your position, and I certainly am still learning the ropes of OCing there has also been some support for the outcomes of my testing.... lets look at your post here:

“Shaden seems to be the new "expert" on the forum posting almost entirely false information”

a) I am not an expert, you will not find a single thread where I or anyone else (to my knowledge) has indicated that I am. And my “reported” scores are all backed up with links and images posted in threads ... did my 2630 run a constant 3GHz on all cores ? Clearly not, but it turboed high enough and ran there long enough to make a marked improvement in benches and in games. The benches have been posted, how you continue to deny them, is beyond idiocy.

-thankfully people explained the how the core/multiplier/bclk and turbo works, and I learned something, unlike you who just freaks out, and blows your crap all over the place.

-there are still people who will claim their highest GHz as their turbo level, and I can see why they would, but I can also see why some people prefer measuring by constant all 4 core speed.

I have never claimed to be PRO nor do I ... most of the stuff that I have employed come from other people, I have never claimed to have come up with a 'new' tactic, only reported to other people what I have done, and in many cases only provided the link to the original source I used....

c) “The irony of having to resort to using an authoritative position "I am a professor of philosophy and politics" by switching logic stances just had me give up”

Perhaps you were not following the conversation very well, my comment about my political and philosophical leanings had nothing to do with overclocking although you clearly try to represent them as such here. They were in response to your claims of my "arrogance.” I was simply pointing out that nothing I write has a tone of arrogance in it. That my political and philosophic positions do not leave room for a feeling of superiority or closed mindedness. But I can see from the very heated tone of your own messages that it is likely that you were simply projecting your own tone and approach to discourse on my posts, a very common phenomenon.

d) The difference I reported in BF3 was the difference of the 2920 chip going in ... it made a big difference. Its just that simple. Maybe there is some other setting that has changed that I am not aware of ... but I am not the only one reporting that it makes a difference. Aikimox as well noted the difference. And as I said to you over on NBR, all I do is report what I experience. Not with a sense of superiority or with arrogance. But if someone asks me a question, I respond honestly.

e) “people watch 2 minutes of footage and then exaggerate "hours" of stability testing and research”

I have in FACT spent HOURS of time working with my cards/system. Fiddling with different drivers, recording performance at multiple clock levels on each driver, lowering mem clocks and upping core clocks and back again trying to find optimal balance, using different approaches to fan control even simply trying to set up an optimal auto fan profile with Hwinfo depending on the Bench and stress points during it. It really says something that you try to discount this, you seem to really feel the need to diminish the efforts of others (myself in this case).

Generally this is evidence of someone who feels the need to place him or herself as superior to the person they diminish. Very well studied in cases of school yard bullying and adolescent behaviour as well as in social interaction and class conflict.

Anyway, it is what it is, but I am a big believer in responding to your critics, and so there is my response. I hope you have a good day, and i hope you try not to let people get you down so much.

As for OCing a S GS 2 ... .here is one such guide, really easy just to google and you should find a bunch ... this is not the one I used, but it looks like it would work as

well.

How To OverClock Galaxy S2 GT I9100 to 1.5Ghz | Android Advices

[widezu69]

Yes. I made a thread for unlocking TDP's on all CPUs over at the ThrottleStop section. Check it out. How quickly does your wPirme 1024m finish in? I do mine in just under 300secs.

[daveh98]

BTW I can see how someone could write [email protected] GHz because mine clocks to 2.6-2.7 GHz and stays there for the entire 1024Mb Wprime 1.55 test. I haven't toyed with the unlocked bios yet, is it possible to raise the tdp on the non-xm chips with it?

Wouldn't that be the result of incorrect reporting software? The chips are spec'ed to run at 2.0ghz if all four cores are used correct? Or is there something I am not seeing with the technology of turbo boost? Don't worry now there are people saying they are running at 3.4ghz on 4 lol.

The reason I said I would switch "almost" exclusively in my title is because I like their gaming section (no offense). But I have always found the newbier the group, the quicker deals and information are shared. Back in the day, I used to use "System wars" at Gamespot to get my information. However, as an o1d gamer, I feel even too old to subject my browser cache to that site.

To clarify, there is NOTHING wrong with OC, even on notebooks (Kinda), if you really know what you are doing. That is a r8 small percentage of people. However, I guess when you are a professor (of two very broad courses of philosophy and politics) and have a PhD..and are newly married...it makes sense to spend hours over at NBR making posts (I must be missing something because that just sounds awfully suspect:29_002: Hey maybe now is a good time to go to the cars thread and trump the McViper with my Viper:)

[daveh98]

Way too lazy to host pics. But mire this sexy beast. It's is running a heavy overclock. It is running the overclock relatively stable 24/7 but ironically the AC just went the other month;)

Got my first viper today (pics)

Scroll down halfway for the pics.

[iPhantomhive]

Last edited by Leslie; 05-10-2009 at 07:47 PM.?

Well nice car ,I wish I had one *jealous*

[unreal25]

*drool*

/10char

[daveh98]

Last edited by Leslie; 05-10-2009 at 07:47 PM.?

Well nice car ,I wish I had one *jealous*

Thanks, if I could do it over again, I probably would not have gotten it. Oh, the edit is from Leslie, at the time a forum mod who embedded the pics for me. At the time, I figured it wouldn't be a bad investment. I bought in a very depressed economy and the price ended up being about what I would pay out of the door for a nice Camaro SS. I also made the justification, that while I can't wrench a car well, it is a dodge at the end of the day. However the price for everything I had to do to get a 10 year old car (at the time) up to spec was really expensive. Transmission went, tires had to be bought and all of a sudden my modest investment was now a lot more. Add to it all, the fear of anything getting damaged and it becomes a not so "practical" weekend warrior. I think the hood on that thing is 26K painted, which was a major reason for the new and more subdued model in 2003; so the slightest accident or asshole who keys it could literally mean the car gets written off. But then again, the investment in ear to ear grins when driving might more than makes up for it.

[unreal25]

Yeah but well... enjoy it. A car (not just dodge) does require a bit of money on the side for the maintenance... I still don't have one, but mainly because I don't need one; I usually take my bicycle or a bus to campus. I might get one later once I get a (real) job.

EDIT: Sorry for OT. Somehow, I thought this is the Offtopic section. -.-

Edited October 13, 2011 by unreal25

[daveh98]

Yeah but well... enjoy it. A car (not just dodge) does require a bit of money on the side for the maintenance... I still don't have one, but mainly because I don't need one; I usually take my bicycle or a bus to campus. I might get one later once I get a (real) job.

True, I just meant it is exempt from many of the exotics pricing when coming to basic maintenance. I think an oil change on a ferrari/lambo can go near 10K. A friend has a porsche and the price for maintenance is crazy. A lot of manufacturers make proprietary tools to use exclusively on the cars to prevent one from doing their own work. At the heart of the Viper is a dodge ram motor and a lot of parts are shared. But even getting sway bar end links can run about 300 dollars compared to 10-20 bucks if it were for my daily driver (Toyota Scion TC).

Enjoy the college years, the real world suck:) I remember thinking "I can't wait to be done" to "I need to go back to school"...many times lol!

[daveh98]

I definately got a kick out of this thread. Agree with much of it too. If I were a mod over at NBR, I'd be a MOD that got banned. I'd be deleting posts left and right, and swinging my ban hammer like Sammy Sosa!.

DR650 you mean you didn't like a Mod asking Shaden to do an Overclockers guide? That would be one tick away from having 5000 warranty requests in a 24 hour period :rollseyes: Maybe he didn't see two minutes later when Shaden asked "How do I flash to the unlocked A03 Bios?" The reply...."just his flash and it does it automatically." Shaking my head...

[Brian]

Wouldn't that be the result of incorrect reporting software? The chips are spec'ed to run at 2.0ghz if all four cores are used correct? Or is there something I am not seeing with the technology of turbo boost? Don't worry now there are people saying they are running at 3.4ghz on 4 lol.

The reason I said I would switch "almost" exclusively in my title is because I like their gaming section (no offense). But I have always found the newbier the group, the quicker deals and information are shared. Back in the day, I used to use "System wars" at Gamespot to get my information. However, as an o1d gamer, I feel even too old to subject my browser cache to that site.

To clarify, there is NOTHING wrong with OC, even on notebooks (Kinda), if you really know what you are doing. That is a r8 small percentage of people. However, I guess when you are a professor (of two very broad courses of philosophy and politics) and have a PhD..and are newly married...it makes sense to spend hours over at NBR making posts (I must be missing something because that just sounds awfully suspect:29_002: Hey maybe now is a good time to go to the cars thread and trump the McViper with my Viper:)

Well turbo boost 2.0 allows the SB chips to go beyond their TDP as long as cooling permits. But there are windows of time to how long they can go beyond a tdp limit before going back near their fused tdp. But like I said, as long as it's cooled properly, it will likely stay above the base clock most of the time. That's why I agree that its misleading to post [email protected] GHz but he clarified his position to note that it was only the turbo boost speed and not sustained. BTW, I use throttlestop to measure my clocks, unclewebb doesn't build faulty software