Brian
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Posts posted by Brian
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12 hours ago, Khenglish said:
All I can see them doing is dropping the power limit.
On July 5th they will supposedly issue a driver level fix. Anyhow, with some sleuthing I found a rogue AMD engineer discussing Polaris, enjoy:
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7 hours ago, Khenglish said:
The poster who lost a PCI-E slot is correct in that its very strange that the 2nd slot still works (PCI_E for x16 is on CPU, not southbridge though). You would expect that if one slot died that all would be dead. They both share the same power circuitry.
Indeed but AMD has pretty much acknowledged the issue and said they'll address it in a driver update. I'm not quite sure what they will do via drivers to accomplish this and whether it will affect performance in anyway.
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AMD's new RX 480 $200 graphics card is out and delivers GTX 970/R390 performance as promised. However, there are some conflicting reports of the new Polaris GPU drawing more power from the PCI-e slot than it is rated. According to Tom's Hardware, the RX 480 draws 86 watts peak from the motherboard's PCI-e slot although the official ceiling is 75 watts.
QuoteAMD’s Radeon RX 480 draws an average of 164W, which exceeds the company's target TDP. And it gets worse. The load distribution works out in a way that has the card draw 86W through the motherboard’s PCIe slot. Not only does this exceed the 75W ceiling we typically associate with a 16-lane slot, but that 75W limit covers several rails combined and not just this one interface.
With peaks of up to 155W, we have to be thankful they're brief, and not putting the motherboard in any immediate danger. However, the audio subsystems on cheaper platforms will have a hard time dealing with them. This means that the "you can hear what you see" effect will be in full force during load changes; activities like scrolling may very well result in audible artifacts.
After Tom's Hardware published their report, other websites such as PCPer followed up with their own testing and reported similar findings:
QuoteThe results are compelling: at stock settings the RX 480 is 160+ watts on average and spikes to 170 watts several times.
Metro: Last Light (4K) power draw, RX 480, Click to Enlarge
Taking a closer look reveals that the motherboard PCI Express connection is supplying 80-84 watts of power over the +12V rail continuously, while the +3.3V rail hovers just below 5 watts. This is definitely a concern for the RX 480 design, but to what degree?
Additionally, there are some users that reported potential issues with their motherboards that arose after using the RX 480 in their systems:
Keep in mind both of those reports do not 100% confirm the problem is the RX 480 but given the reported issues with it's power draw and these users boards experiencing problems after installing an RX 480, there is a strong possibility that it is the cause.
There is a reddit thread in r/AMD on this topic and AMD's Robert Hallock has issued the following response:
Quote1) The RX 480 meets the bar for PCIe compliance testing with PCI-SIG. //edit: and interop with PCI Express. This is not just our internal testing. I think that should be made very clear. Obviously there are a few GPUs exhibiting anomalous behavior, and we've been in touch with these reviewers for a few days to better understand their test configurations to see how this could be possible.
2) Update #2 made by the OP is confused. There is a difference between ASIC power, which is what ONLY THE GPU CONSUMES (110W), and total graphics power (TGP), which is what the entire graphics card uses (150W). There has been no change in the spec, so I would ask that incorrect information stop being disseminated as "fact."
We will have more on this topic soon as we investigate, but it's worth reminding people that only a very small number of hundreds of RX 480 reviews worldwide encountered this issue. Clearly that makes it aberrant, rather than the rule, and we're working to get that number down to zero.
/edit for absolute factual clarity.
We're awaiting AMD's full official response which should hopefully be coming soon.
UPDATE: TechPowerUp contacted AMD and received the following official response:
Quote"As you know, we continuously tune our GPUs in order to maximize their performance within their given power envelopes and the speed of the memory interface, which in this case is an unprecedented 8 Gbps for GDDR5. Recently, we identified select scenarios where the tuning of some RX 480 boards was not optimal. Fortunately, we can adjust the GPU's tuning via software in order to resolve this issue. We are already testing a driver that implements a fix, and we will provide an update to the community on our progress on Tuesday (July 5, 2016)."
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20 minutes ago, Lossy said:
let me know if you come by any solutions. I too have been trying to get my 1080 to work on OS X. Works perfectly on Windows.
Why would you even want it on OSX though? It's not like OSX is known for gaming.
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1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:
Why bother with Alienware at this point? If they cripple it like they did the last 18-incher it will be a well-built chassis that houses an abject failure in terms of performance. If they release it as a overweight BGA turdbook it will be even worse than that. Alienware has shown us their true colors since the introduction of Haswell. Judging from their past behaviors that followed release of the M18xR2 I think it is safe to say that they are no longer committed to producing high quality enthusiast products that deliver superior performance or an experience that enthusiasts can find to be gratifying. Their only commitment is to sell and maximize profits using marketing hype and anything that turns out right seems to be accidental at this point. They haven't sold anything worth buying since the M18xR, so there's really nothing for us to look forward to.
This man speaks the truth, Alienware became trash shortly after the release of Alienware 18 and I called it before it was even released and jumped ship a few years ago. They always find a way to cripple their systems, whether it's bios, hardware or a combination of both. Plus AW laptops are notoriously thick and heavy with ugly fat bezels and subpar displays, just say no. Get yourself an MSI or Clevo if you want a better performance notebook but unfortunately with the way the market is now, you can only count on Clevo if you want a socketed CPU.
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Well the last few years AMD wasn't able to compete in performance notebooks because their stuff ran far too hot and consumed too much power. Supposedly that will change with Polaris but we'll see, I'm always skeptical of anything AMD says.
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LOL @ picture.
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1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:
Don't you just hate it how idiots with low standards and lack of intelligence ruin things for everyone?
Oh yeah and unfortunately there's a LOT more of them than us.
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Well looks like BGA bullshit is beginning on the desktop now, feast your eyes on this:
QuoteColorful, the Chinese PC hardware manufacturer, integrated the required components from a GTX 1070 directly onto a motherboard's PCB. We've heard rumors that GP104would be available in mobile form-factors in a few months, so it's possible that this draws from some laptop initiatives, but it's interesting to see others consider it too. As Videocardz pointed out, this is not an ATX-standard board, so it's possible that Colorful is planning on getting into (or supporting someone getting into) small form factor desktops.
http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Motherboard-Colorful-Includes-GTX-1070-Graphics
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I would not recommend SLI for anyone considering buying a new notebook or building a desktop in the near future. Both AMD and NVIDIA are moving away from mgpu support and so are the lazy software developers who only want to create cross-platform titles and not bother with PC optimization. You get rare titles liked GTA V which make somewhat an effort to add in some extras for PC but overall it's just a straight port with a few extras like GameWorks if NVIDIA tosses them a bone. AMD doesn't have the budget to be devoting engineers to get game devs to add extras to PC games so this locks all of us into NVIDIA's GameWorks and depending on who you ask, that is either a good or bad thing.
With consoles now moving to a more frequent upgrade cycle, I think we'll hopefully see a lot of fragmentation there and butt hurt with the guys buying the latest consoles (e.g. PS4 Neo) and not being able to get extra effects and having to deal w/the lowest common denominator. Maybe that will drive those guys to finally build a decent PC.
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4 hours ago, johnksss said:
Lets hope....If they decide to make any more sli notebooks that they do not require a code to unlock sli. Like they are doing with the desktop variant. (Using more than 2 cards(1080/1070) in sli requires a code now)
I don't think it should affect notebooks at all since they don't use more than 2 GPUs. But in general SLI is dying out and has been for sometime. If you look at some of the latest games and engines they simply do not have native SLI support and it is up to the developer to implement it (e.g. good luck unless its AAA title). It is part of the reason I'm moving on from Titan X SLI to a single card.
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37 minutes ago, Prema said:
The 120Hz FHD should work just fine (given the DM2 cable can fit) in current DM models (minus g-sync)...the higher res will exceed the current DM model eDP bandwidth...
They would like to see people Better Get Another one each year than upgrade their current model...
That doesn't make sense though because they still make money off an MXM board sale vs BGA. In fact they could probably get away with charging more for the MXM version. I suspect it might have been due to push back from companies like Dell and Asus wanting consumers to throw away their laptops and do full upgrades vs putting in an MXM GPU. So it comes back to BGA but not necessarily because NVIDIA wanted it that way. Plus as I said before, I suspect with the dwindling MXM market, NVIDIA probably wasn't making money on reference designs or were breaking even and decided not to make them. That's why they're charging their $100 tax on desktop reference cards now because they said it was costing them money in the long run to maintain the reference design.
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8 hours ago, Prema said:
The refreshes are very similar except for an additional USB 3.1 (USB 2.0 is gone), updated audio licenses (ESSTM SABRE HiFi DAC (headphone) / SOUND BLASTER® X-FI® MB5), official Kaby support etc...
Biggest change is that NVIDIA stopped giving ODMs MXM Reference designs.
The last two MXM supporter MSI and Clevo have to design/create their own solutions or join the BGA club (everyone else), which they don't do just yet...but vote with your wallets for upgrade-ability or it won't last much longer.
Has nvidia given a reason for not making mxm reference boards anymore? I'm guessing the cost vs volume wasn't worth it for them and that's why. However, I bet MSI and Clevo could threaten to go all Polaris and that would convince nvidia to make the reference board.
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22 minutes ago, kickbutthero said:
Awesome Brian!!! Now where's my promotion ??
lol
Well since you inadvertently found a bug I suppose I could speed it up for you as a one time deal.
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16 hours ago, j0ak0 said:
hope the new 16nm give them the ability to make it work with all the horsepower as the desktop version
It will be the full chip but with lower clocks.
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22 minutes ago, kickbutthero said:
While reading this article on the main page, I cannot find a where to leave comments! I had to find it in the forums to post comment! Are most new stories unable to be commented on from the main screen?
Anyways, this card is very nice and makes the ps4 & Xbox one even more dated! I am happy my laptop is s fully upgraded able! Errr I think this site has a problem with iphone ! It is very iratating replying from my iphone . The cursor jumps everywhere in the text box!
It was a permissions issue, thanks for bringing it up as we weren't aware of it! It's fixed now and you should be able to comment on articles on the front page.
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So according to PC Gamer, they have a "source" who tells them NVIDIA will be readying it's newest Pascal chips for the mobile form factor and they will be released sometime in August/September of this year. In addition, the rumor is these new GPUs will not be cut down M variants but be full-fledged desktop GPUs crammed into high performance notebooks (e.g. MSI and Clevo) but just clocked lower to fit the TDP and power envelope. That shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone since NVIDIA crammed a 165W desktop 980 in notebooks last year and with GTX 1070 only sipping 150W and GTX 1080 at 180W, it makes sense to release these as soon as possible.
QuoteAccording to our contacts, Nvidia is readying the release of its new 10-series chips for notebooks. The kick is, they won't be M versions of desktop GPUs. They will be the same chips used on the desktops, just operating at a lower TDP—we're told there will be the same number of shader units, etc.
We're also told that Nvidia will not go back to producing separate M versions of its desktop GPUs, which is good news for those looking for better gaming performance on the road or in a desktop replacement type notebook.
Despite what PC Gamer says, we may yet still see M variants with different names down the line as there are a lot of gamers out there that still want high performance chips but with thinner profiles and longer battery lives but that will probably come sometime after the 1080/1070 are released for notebooks. In addition, we've still got AMD's newest Polaris coming and with the 480 only consuming 150W, AMD could easily shoehorn that into a notebook just as NVIDIA is doing so we expect both companies to announce availability of their newest notebook graphics chips soon.
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Not the same model but should give you an idea of what others are doing:
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For the month of June 2016 anyone who likes the Eurocom Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/
EurocomTechnology/ ) is eligible for $100 off an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M upgrade kit for any supporting laptop.If you already LIKE Eurocom on Facebook you are already eligible for $100 off an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M upgrade kit as well.
Eurocom provides everything for an easy upgrade including the X-bracket, screws, thermal pads, and thermal paste and can provide heatsinks that may be needed to handle the 980M card.
Having an upgradeable laptop is essential if the user wants to extend the lifespan of the system through repairs or performance increases.
Breathe the life back into your laptop with the performance of an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M upgrade kit Mark Bialic, Eurocom President.
Eurocom is offering upgrade solutions for phased out laptop models to allow consumers and companies alike to extend the life span of their systems while benefiting from enhanced performance and usage of new software that requires new graphics.
Eurocom and several other laptop developers integrate MXM 3.0b technology into their high performance notebooks and gaming laptops because it allows those systems to support the most powerful graphics technology on the market while allowing for possible upgrade options.
Notebooks or laptops that incorporate MXM 3.0b can be easily upgraded with newer or higher performing cards of the same standard. This allows users who have purchased an upgradeable system to improve the performance and increase the lifespan of their system with an easy upgrade.
How to place an order with the $100 discount on the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M upgrade kit:
1. Like the Eurocom Facebook page at: https://www.facebook.com/
EurocomTechnology/ 2. Purchase the 980M upgrade kit by selecting
a. GPU Upgrade
b. Select the Laptop you own
c. Choose the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M upgrade kit
d. Click Order
e. Enter all relevant information
f. In the Configuration Instructions box write:
3. Click order
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Specifications:
· 8GB DDR5;
· MXM 3.0b;
· 100W
· 28nm
· 5200 million transistors
· 256 bit
· 2500 MHz memory speed
· 1536 CUDE Cores
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Videos:
MSI GT 72 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Guide: https://youtu.be/ghe4tFuC7jE
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M SLI Upgrade Guide in EUROCOM X8 - P377SMA / SAGER NP9377: https://youtu.be/EXDsr2TV3L8
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade in EUROCOM Racer 2 - P150EM - P170EM-NP9170-NP9150: https://youtu.be/NMmQ6FH_IRY
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M & 970M Alienware 17 (r5) Upgrade Guide: https://youtu.be/fh8ockwbDiE
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M install in EUROCOM Panther 5 Mobile Supercomputer: https://youtu.be/b2yH4BD3ID0
Eurocom laptops with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Kits
MSI Laptops with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Kits
Dell Laptops with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Kits
Alienware laptops with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Kits
Clevo Laptops with NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M Upgrade Kits
CLEVO P750DM-G / SAGER NP9758-G
CLEVO P370EM/SAGER NP9370/XMG P722 Pro
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Thanks for the update, heat is usually the main culprit that causes throttling in notebooks unfortunately. You might want to look into a mod for the bottom cover if it's an older Clevo or asus .
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I don't think I've seen a water cooler egpu guide posted here yet but if someone did one and documented their build log I'd love to promote it to the front page as a featured article.
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The question is who would have the balls to delid a $1700+ cpu? I mean I know the guy in the vid did but he's a famous overclocker that gets free stuff.
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2 hours ago, Prema said:
It's 120Hz AND g-sync this time...
What if you drop in a Polaris gpu later on, will the display give any troubles? And is there going to be a freesync model?
Despite AMD RX480's known issues, do you plan to pick one up?
in General Desktops Discussion
Posted
So the RX 480 has issues with PCI-E power draw and AMD is supposed to release a driver level fix any day now that remedies that problem albeit at a slight performance cost. By default, this fix will be off and users can toggle it using a "compatibility" button in the UI. AMD claims they will make up for that slight performance loss with driver optimizations for games. The reference cards also tend to run on the hotter side and have nearly no overclocking headroom (5-6% max).
With that in mind, will you still consider getting one for your PC or are you waiting on NVIDIA to drop the GTX 1060?