The Zeitgeist Movement

[Michael]

I don't know how many of you heard of the Zeitgeist Movement.

They have produced three very interesting documentary movies that deal with the corruption of the world goverments, the outdated and corrupted monetary system and lots of other very interesting issues. I can't say i agree with all of their claims, but nevertheless i found their movies extremely interesting to watch.

You can access and download those movies for free here : The Zeitgeist Film Series Gateway | Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, Zeitgeist Moving Forward

I strongly advise you guys to watch it and i would really like to open a discussion about it here.

I wanted to share an email i got from them couple of days ago.

Let me know what you think.

"FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden

On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the

spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of

the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in

Pakistan.

Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks

in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display,

reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural

psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and

Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like

the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being,

reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.

It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such

an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception

was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States

Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross

irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and

emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true

root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.

The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means

nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death

simply serves as a catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on

revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a

psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it

citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to

anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the

quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.

However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of

rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more

practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the

importance of that problem with respect to priority.

The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society.

It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of

relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and

communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September

11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during

the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.

As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically

limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that

allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this

context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001

become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has

now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is

spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that

pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.

Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from

automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple

structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine

over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart

disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to

environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330

9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget

allocations for research on these illnesses is only a small fraction of the

money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.

Such a list could go on and on with regard to the perversion of priority

when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I

hope many out there can recognize the severe imbalance we have at hand with

respect to our values.

So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude

this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most

brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of

non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed,

killing four little girls attending Sunday school.

In a public address, Dr. King stated:

“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many

people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So

tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God

has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America.

We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the

soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical

weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take

up the ammunition of love.”

- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963 -

~Peter Joseph

The Zeitgeist Movement

[unreal25]

I disagree with calling him a "human being". I will def take a look at the movie.

I for one am glad he's gone. Goodbye to him and good riddance.

[Michael]

I also think he should have been killed, but i do admit that seeing that celebrations on the streets bothered me. There's something really wrong with it and i think that email i posted sums it up pretty good.

[Bruna S]

We can almost see the fine line between the right and wrong. The way we deal with matters like this is what defines us as human beings.

War, Terror, Revenge, Greed, Grief and Hate are extremely powerful, dangerous and volatile feelings, and it is so sad and incredibly heartbreaking when a whole nation is motivated and stimulated by those feelings.

We are far away from being free of all these, and from the people that use these feelings to rule us. But we are a different generation, we have a voice. Anyone can say what they feel and think, and together we change things. I just hope that we start to be more motivated in doing peace than just celebrating more terror.

When I saw in twitter “USA killed Osama Bin Laden “my first tough was that they will retaliate, fear was my first reaction. Everybody wished him dead, but the way everything was done, it just promoted more hate, more fear, and a population in fear is controllable, and vulnerable.

We are talking about United States of America acting like a bully, no justice was done, killing one symbol does not change things for good, just create a new martyr for a fanatic population.

What did we get with this operation? A celebration in the streets, a virtual popularity to a President near of reelections; all the nations in maximum alert for a possible retaliation attack. Just more fear and more control and what will be done next? Who will they kill for justice when they attack again? These are the hard questions.

He needed to die, period, not because justice had to be done. The world is lighter without someone like Bin Laden, but nothing good was done.

On my opinion, technology is the only path for our salvation as specie.

It connects people, brings us together as one nation, as population of one planet, we become global.

And organizations as The Zeitgeist Movement , Wikileaks and The Venus Project brings another view for our future, it is enlightening.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Bruna S

[Michael]

We can almost see the fine line between the right and wrong. The way we deal with matters like this is what defines us as human beings.

War, Terror, Revenge, Greed, Grief and Hate are extremely powerful, dangerous and volatile feelings, and it is so sad and incredibly heartbreaking when a whole nation is motivated and stimulated by those feelings.

We are far away from being free of all these, and from the people that use these feelings to rule us. But we are a different generation, we have a voice. Anyone can say what they feel and think, and together we change things. I just hope that we start to be more motivated in doing peace than just celebrating more terror.

When I saw in twitter “USA killed Osama Bin Laden “my first tough was that they will retaliate, fear was my first reaction. Everybody wished him dead, but the way everything was done, it just promoted more hate, more fear, and a population in fear is controllable, and vulnerable.

We are talking about United States of America acting like a bully, no justice was done, killing one symbol does not change things for good, just create a new martyr for a fanatic population.

What did we get with this operation? A celebration in the streets, a virtual popularity to a President near of reelections; all the nations in maximum alert for a possible retaliation attack. Just more fear and more control and what will be done next? Who will they kill for justice when they attack again? These are the hard questions.

He needed to die, period, not because justice had to be done. The world is lighter without someone like Bin Laden, but nothing good was done.

On my opinion, technology is the only path for our salvation as specie.

It connects people, brings us together as one nation, as population of one planet, we become global.

And organizations as The Zeitgeist Movement , Wikileaks and The Venus Project brings another view for our future, it is enlightening.

Hello and welcome my beloved wife!

Guys treat my wife with respect, it took me a while to convince her to join, LOL !!!

Edited May 4, 2011 by Michael

[unreal25]

LOL! Welcome! You're wifi is pretty! (If that's her picture. ).

Yeah the "celebrations" on the streets were kind of "eyerolling". I do think it will help, even if a little - its better than anything. Its also unfortunate, a lot of idiots from the US are often selected in these videos as a "representatives" of american population.

[Brian]

Hi Bruna, glad you finally joined up

With reference to the OP:

I agree with most points and did find it strange that an entire nation was celebrating the death of someone and the words "cultural psychosis" fits that description aptly. Did he need to be removed from the limelight? I'd argue that he already faded away over the past 10 years but remained a sticking point in American policy and that is precisely why he was eliminated--to bring a closure to the events of 9/11 in the minds of the American people. Many people on that day kept chanting, "it's over, it's over!" because his death was in fact a catharsis for a public that had become emotionally saddled by the media, he was the boogieman that haunted Americans for 10 years. Did he need to be captured or killed? Yes, his organization and views were a threat but the mass celebrations were surprising.

Moving forward, I don't see terrorism going away, it will always be there as long as our national policy infringes on the sovereignty of others under the guise of security. Yes, there is a fraction of lunatics out there that wish to implement their extreme ideological ways on the rest of the world but I'd argue that nearly every country and/or group has such extremists in one way or another. Whether you are talking about Mexican gangs bent on an ideology of domination of drug trafficking through murder or cults that encourage arming their followers, you can find these fringe movements everywhere.

I think the bigger picture is that each nation acts for its own self interest and in that context, the USA's presence in the mideast is self evident--it needs to protect its long term energy needs and in order to justify those costly ventures a distractor to satiate the public's outcry is constructed. Whether these misadventures benefit only a tiny group of the US populace (e.g. stock holders of energy companies, politicians and CEOs) or the nation as a whole remains to be seen but I'd argue that thus far, the public at large has not benefited at all. So in order to avoid mass riots about a failed economy, something must be done to distract the masses.

[StamatisX]

Hey Bruna, welcome to T|I, I agree with you, killing won't make things any better, it just creates a never ending loop hard to break due to our human nature...

Good post of yours, I am glad Michael convinced you to join us

[mw86]

Wow after all that has been said, I very much agree and can't see that we needed to celebrate his death at all. It was in no way a win for us like Bruna said, I felt nothing but the same... fear for what will happen now that all over our media idiots are dancing around celebrating a death of a human. The society of theirs we see from the outside, we are one in the same with them because of how we acted afterwards. We did exactly what they have done... how many videos of the middle east displayed Bush as a bloody figure that they beat with sticks and set fire to the figure. Most of them did and we mirrored that by dancing around in streets celebrating death. Death is nothing to celebrate as all of you have mentioned already. Welcome to the forum Bruna, this place is blessed by your presence... there are plenty of us mods here to quash any impudence sent your way Bruna. I fear for us all as society builds more aggression from all sides, we can't answer violence with violence. We must befriend our enemies and make them aware we are all from the same genetic make-up. We as humans since the industrial revolution have been destroying our environment and the world as a whole needs to collaborate on saving it.

[Bruna S]

Hi Guys! I heard so much about you all

Thank you for welcoming me so warmly.

To unreal25: It most certainly is my picture, thank you

To Brian: You'd CNN the hell out of me (what is good), and i wish that people would be as conscious as you. As a Brazilian I can say that I am very familiar with practices to avoid mass riots, we use Carnaval, Soccer and Parties in general. People like to call us happy, but it is just an easy scape from the fight. But anyway you are welcome to come party with us

To Stam: You are welcome too hehehe

And to my beloved husband: You can try love, but I will not get geekier than this! And I`m glad that we established that Stam and Brian aren't girls. Lol

I`m really proud of you guys, for making this forum/site/store/whatever-you-guys-want-it-to-be happen so beautifully and professionally. Your are great minded geeks, and this is a fact! It is just something to be shared.

Edited May 5, 2011 by Michael

[Bruna S]

Thank you for being welcoming and kind

Well, mw86 I totally feel you.

Michael first posted and we started talking about the matter (was when he convinced me to post what I told him).

Right now we live in the Middle East, we take public transportations, go to cinema, malls, public places in general, and to enter in those our car and purse are checked for bombs.

I fear for real (not that other people fear less), it is just my reality right now.

And people here are used with this, it is routine and the terror is everywhere, but I came from a place that all this is alien, and to get used with it is just sad!!

In your post has the point that I very much liked "We did exactly what they have done... how many videos of the middle east displayed Bush as a bloody figure that they beat with sticks and set fire to the figure", The USA are not just an Isolated Nation, it is also example to the whole world, so when we see displays as this it is just REALLY WRONG.

[unreal25]

Hey, I know exactly what you mean. I spent couple of days visiting my ex-gf in Israel. I thought all those bomb-checks were kind of odd - but its pretty similar in the US, especially New York. The security check for the Western Wall in Jerusalem was like walking into military compound. But I thought the country was really nice otherwise. I thought it was cool, there were a lot of signs in English and pretty much everyone I talked to spoke good English (I can understand some Russian too however). I remember they spent 30 mins checking my Alienware M11x at the airport.

[StamatisX]

they probably wanted to see how smooth the gameplay was... LOL

[Bruna S]

Yeah it is tense sometimes. Once I was in the cinema and some dude put a laser pointer in the screen, I immediately started tripping that some attack could happen, and I spent the last 10 min of the movie completely tense. Afterwards I asked to my friend if she saw the laser pointer, she told me that yes, and that she past the last 10min checking possible places for shelter if someone started shooting. LOL

But right now the situation is good, long time doesn't have any war, so nothing harsh.

[StamatisX]

That's a funny story LOL but yeah I laugh cause I am on the outside, I am pretty sure I wouldn't if I was in there...

[Bruna S]

Nooo it was funny! When I said to Michael he totally eyeballed me! I'm all the time checking for possible weird people around me.

Like we had the Holocaust memory day, and they start a siren in the whole country and people stand for a minute in silent, people stop their cars and come out of it, they stop the trains as well. It is beautiful (for who knows what is going on!).

On my first year here, I thought was some attack alarm! I panicked like crazy, so every year my lovely husband calls me from work to tell me that will have a siren!

But don't take the wrong impression, the country is gorgeous and fun!

[StamatisX]

Oh yeah of course, it's that we are not familiar we certain things and our imagination makes extreme scenarios LOL... definitely a few incidents cannot spoil the whole picture

[Michael]

But don't take the wrong impression, the country is gorgeous and fun!

And that's why we're moving to Brazil

[StamatisX]

if it's more fun there...

[Bruna S]

And that's why we're moving to Brazil

and there we will worry with other things... buuuut has picanha

[Bruna S]

for who doesn't know what picanha is: PICANHA -

[Michael]

Wife, you just got pink!

[Bruna S]

Wife, you just got pink!

i'm so fancy! amor, so romantic/geek move

I'm feeling important! LOL

[Brian]

and there we will worry with other things... buuuut has picanha

Looks delicious! I liked your jewelry designs bruna.

[mw86]

Yeah love the fractal elements site, I checked it out when I first joined here... it was in your profile Michael, great jewelry. Also thought it was interesting you called it Fractal Elements.

BTW Picanha looks delicous!