davide445

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Just a update to inform interested readers, after reading some more specialized and real world benchmarks such as these one AMD FX-8350 review: is AMD back? - Performance averages and these AMD FX-8350, -8320, -6300 'Vishera' review: finally good enough? - PowerDirector 8 benchmark and user experiences on AudioVideo CPU performances, the conclusion is 2nd FX Vishera series can be equivalent to i7 for multimedia activities, costing much less, at a price of a increased power consumption.

It's weak instead for gaming, but the GPU will help a lot on that for my planned CryEngine SDK usage. So I'm back on AMD architecture, looking for FX-8320 or 8350.

Considering this is eGPU room I will not go further on that discussion, since summarizing all costs and benefits I think my better cost/effective choice will be only "Mini" PC (not so mini, in fact), this one

CPU AMD FX-8320 Black Edition - 3,5 GHz - Socket AM3+

VGA SAPPHIRE TECHNOLOGY Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition - 2 GB GDDR5 - PCI-Express 3.0

RAM CORSAIR Vengeance Red 2 x 4 Gb DDR3-1600 PC3-12800 CL8

HDD SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.14 ST1000DM003 3,5" - 1 TB

MOBO ASROCK 970 Extreme3 - Socket AM3+ - Chipset 970 - ATX

CASE CORSAIR Carbide Series 300R

PSU CORSAIR CX600 80 PLUS Bronze - 600 W

TOT: 824 USD

You could replace the X220 with a same-gen 12.5" HP 2560P and upgrade the CPU to a 45W i7-quad like a i7-2820QM to gain portability, lots of CPU grunt and inexpensive eGPU option. Unlike the X220/X230, the HP 2560P/2570P has a socketted CPU allowing such user upgrades (note: warranty implications). A 2560P is often available on ebay-US for less than a Lenovo X220. The one-gen newer 12.5" HP 2570P giving even more performance scope: it allows 3rd gen i7-quad installation AND raid-0 capability across it's primary and optical bay drives.

Still, if you want absolute best performance then consider a desktop PC or Intel's NUC (Next Unit of Computing) if need something in a very compact size.

Unfortunately 2560/70P will cost me at least 1530 USD, that compared to 800 of the Mini PC conf are a lot more.

Portability has always a value, but this is really too much for me.

My goal is to find the conf that guarantee good performances for prosumer AV/realtime 3D design use at minimum cost.

yeah but most of these xeons and opterons were released 2 or more years earlier.

also many of these CPUs are designed for servers, with stability and energy consumtion in mind.

Most games don't even fully support these CPUs in terms of multithreading.

As far as I know these PCmark results aren't really reliable. Take a look.

maybe you can find some more Sandra or Aida benchmarks. There should be some Creative Suite 5 / 6 and rendering benchmarks around too.

again: you shouldn't care about it.

Exactly, that's why I finally read real life applications benchmark such as this one AMD FX-8350, FX-8320, FX-6300 and FX-4300: All Vishera Processors in One Review: as I wrote before I can't think using a i3 equivalent for video editing, and going for AMD i5 equivalent cost me...the same as a real i5, that not only performed good in ALL conditions but also consume much less.

The problem is that all of this cost me 400 USD more than a eGPU solution, but considering the av demand for real CPU speed and not only GPU I'm starting considering unavoidable such expense.

After reading comments on AMD FX architecture I informed myself better.

The bottom line is that in real word app FX-6300 is equivalent to i3 and FX-8350 to i5, but with much more performance change among different applications and a greater power usage.

Considering that and the relative pricing doesn't worth upgrading to 8350 (a i3 equivalent it's just not enough for AV) and I changed my conf on Intel based, now this

CPU Intel Core i5-3470 3,2GHz Socket 1155 with GPU Ivy Bridge Boxed

VGA Club 3D Ati AMD Radeon HD 7850 RoyalQueen 2GB

Mobo AsRock B75M-GL R2.0 Socket 1155 Intel B75 DDR3 SATA3 USB3 VGA DVI MicroATX

RAM DDR3 Corsair Vengeance Blue Low Profile CML8GX3M2A1600C9B 1600MHz 8GB (2x4GB) CL9

WLAN Pci-e Wireless TP-Link TL-WN781ND 150MBs Wireless N

HDD 3.5" Western Digital Caviar Blu 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA3

Case Mini Cooler Master Elite 342 mATX with PSU 500W Black

Keyboard Power X KB618B Multimedia USB Black

MS Windows 8 Pro 64 bit

TOT: 817 USD

That's a respectable amount of money for me.

Will be really pleased to find eGPU solution it's the perfect one, but I think need to find the extra 430 USD!

Need to say that your i7 3820QM it's better than many Xeon and Opteron processor as you can find here

PassMark - CPU Mark High End CPUs

and even better than 8 "core" FX-8320 that can be the next step of my setup.

Better its always better, the fact is I will be happy to spend just 385 USD for eGPU if this will give me a strong push in performance also in AV.

But I read many different experiences with PD, just now a guy want to return a 650Ti because it doesn't make any difference at all in his workflow speed. Many practitioners are using CPUs with speed around yours, but also some are using much worse solutions.

So I will be happy to find a good benchmark to evaluate the real cost effectiveness of my future system.

Otherwise sure I will go for the best I can afford, that's the above setup.

Ok thanks so (apologize for my bad English knowledge) was meaning not "comparable" with Intel parts.

Reading a bit appear that AMD FX micro architecture it's an average between single and double core: a "core" does have two physical integer units and one shared floating point unit. Something similar to Intel HyperTrading but with phisical cores.

Appear that your mobo need to have the right BIOS tho handle this efficiently, and also new version "Vishera" such as 6300 does improve the performance under regular conditions.

CPU Mark state FX-6300 it's above a Intel Core i5-3450, but I don't know if that it's relevant for AV editing and rendering.

The "6" core is actually only 3 core.

The FX parts are in no way compatible to Intel parts.

Really don't understood what you mean...

Meaning FX-6300 its not a 6-core?

And why I need to bother about Intel....Asrock 960GM/U3S3 FX Socket AM3+ it's a AM3+ socket...

For AV editing I already used PD 10 and worked (8GB RAM is useful for that) in editing, a bit slow for AVCHD rendering. Don't want to try for 3D video :-)

I'm beginning to use CryEngine 3 SDK loading some maps and elements to create a wind turbine impact analysis simulation.

But using complex elements I got 7-8 FPS, really not usable to create even a low res video.

Now I know all of it your global laptop+eGPU specs are higher even respect my Mini PC conf, considering also Thunderbolt is faster than ExpressCard so the power of 660Ti will be not wasted by bandwidth bottleneck.

Your conf its higher respect the average (asking for advice on PD and CE forum they suggest me 650Ti or higher and at least i7 - don't understood specific model) or just fine for real pro?.

I'm not a professional and AV it's not the core of my activity.

But still I need to use it, and I value my time for learning and working.

If you say your rMBP work fine with video rendering I receive the information in fact you are working with a conf much more similar to Mini PC than mine laptop+eGPU.

rMBP use a CPU benchmarked better than FX-6300 and your 560 Ti (or you use an 660 Ti?) it's benchmarked at the same level of HD 7850. It also uses 1600mhz RAM and SSD drive.

Sure that Mini PC it's not powerful as can be, but it's similar with your rMBP, so I hope can be productive.

Do you have a DIY enclosure? Do you use Thunderbolt port?

Asking for specific advice about the best GPU for my specific needs (PowerDirector 3D editing and CryEngine 3 SDK development) I received the suggestion that, especially for video editing, CPU and other part of hw such as RAM and HDD are also important for the whole performance.

The suggestion was also why you don't look for a complete cheap mini PC, it doesn't cost so much more.

With a lot of optimization I finally need to compare these two eGPU vs MiniPC conf:

eGPU solution with my own laptop as main PC

(My laptop:

CPU: Intel Core i5 2520M 2.5 Ghz

iGPU: Intel HD 3000 650 Mhz

RAM: 2x4GB Kingston 9905428-043.A01G DDR3 666Mhz

HDD: HITACHI HTS723232A7A364 SATAII 7200 rpm

Mobo Lenovo 429137G Chipset Intel QM67 (Cougar Point) [b3]

Win 7 Pro 64bit)

PE4L V2.1

XFX ProSeries 550W Core Edition

eVGA Club 3D Ati AMD Radeon HD 7850 RoyalQueen 2GB

TOT: 385 USD

Mini PC solution

CPU AMD FX-6300 6-Core Vishera 3.5GHz Socket AM3+ 14MB 95W Boxed

VGA Club 3D Ati AMD Radeon HD 7850 RoyalQueen 2GB

RAM DDR3 Corsair Vengeance Blue Low Profile CML8GX3M2A1600C9B 1600MHz 8GB (2x4GB) CL9

WLAN Pci-e Wireless TP-Link TL-WN781ND 150MBs Wireless N

HDD 3.5" Western Digital Caviar Blu 1TB 7200RPM 64MB SATA3

Mobo Asrock 960GM/U3S3 FX Socket AM3+ AMD 760G DDR3 SATA3 USB3 MicroATX

Case Mini Cooler Master Elite 342 mATX with PSU 500W Black

Keyboard Power X KB618B Multimedia USB Black

MS Windows 8 Pro 64 bit

TOT: 743 USD

Where on the MiniPC solution I really stripped down to the minimum req and costs for all the components.

I can maybe save some 30 USD using FX-6100 instead of 6300, and also other 20 USD without wlan card, but small things. The idea is to have exactly the same functionality of my laptop, so to compare costs, with a balanced (but cheap) architecture.

The difference of 358 USD (retail price) reflect obviously the need to buy hw/sw I already have in my laptop such as CPU, RAM, HDD, keyboard, OS.

I was never considering in detail how much a laptop is behind desktop in term of speed of the various components. Not only CPU, but also RAM, HDD, mobo everything its slower for power consumption and heat dissipation considerations I think.

Considering all of that I wanted to know:

- does anyone use eGPU solutions not only for gaming, but also for video editing, and what are your feeling about performance?

- apart from 3DMark benchmark do you ever performed a more complete PCMark test, so to test the whole eGPU + laptop setup?

- apart from cash availability, do you think a 358 USD premium worth the setup of such a MiniPC?

I can't say since I never done a eGPU myself, but check first here eGPU Implementations examples if you find someone

Hi padr3maronn0, I'm Italian too and just finished a loong thread to define my best config.

About the adapter you can buy it there Hwtools or here ebay.com

You need also a PSU (I can send you the list others have selected for me if you need one) and the GPU.

For the case I decided to start with no one so to limit my expenses. I will start to create mine in a couple of weeks.

That's all if no others - much more expert than me - have nothing else to add

Ps considering my "industrial" use of eGPU will make more sense to use Nvidia Quadro/ATI FirePro workstation video card.

But there are any DIY eGPU experience on that cards?

As I read in fact there are almost equivalent to GeForce/Radeon gaming-oriented cards with specific drivers, and the latter can be modded to enable into "gaming" brothers features reserved to "workstation" equivalent.

Interesting, but I think the later solution even if cost efficient (cost of gaming card, feature of professional workstation oriented) can be tricky in the already delicate eGPU equilibrium, what do you think?

If other users of the software you're looking at say that a particular card is better, then that statement holds true when considering an egpu (assuming you don't care about driving the internal display), so a 7870 might be the best choice for you.

I wouldn't worry about brand unless you're planning on overclocking, but a 2GB card is good if the price is right.

I'm currently asking for advice on CryEngine and PowerDirector forum, will post the final results.

So far the situation it's pretty clear from the eGPU pow

...Now a Lenovo X220 with latest bios will have no problem with either.

Conclusion: if you only need external LCD mode then the HD7870 is a great buy. If wanting internal LCD mode then consider either a GTX560Ti, GTX660 or GTX660Ti depending on your budget. A GTX660Ti is a considerably better performer than a GTX660, worth the extra $$ imho.

And what about 3D video editing, rendering and display?

I want to use CryEngine and PowerDirector to create and edit 3D videos (coming also from other sources) and want also to connect my laptop to my 3D TV set for preview and display.

I was reading about Nvidia 3DVision and ATI HD3D, scrolling supported hw appear that Nvidia directly support my 3D TV ATI not, but .... need I to care? There are any specific reason for preferring Nvidia/ATI with 3D in mind as used in a eGPU setup?

You should be good-to-go with the Corsair VS350, the BeQuiet! 350W or the Corsair CX430. Otherwise, I wouldn't go near anything else priced below the XFX 450W I already mentioned (and of those choices, I'd _still_ go with the XFX )

edit - of course I'd actually go for the Seasonic S12-II 430, but reviews point to the XFX being a rebranded version of the same unit.

About these PSU all of them does have all the connections to power all the different things (GPU, adapter, etc?).

If I didn't want to send the output to the laptop screen, I'd have bought a 7850 myself. IMHO it's by far the best performance for the money of any GPU. I got lucky with my 560ti448 as Amazon sold it at £127 at the time - but a 7850 still just about beats it.

And 7870? It's still priced about $15 below 660 and appear to be more popular among CryEngine fans and also with better benchmarks.

But, really, will I have better performance? And about compatibility?

Also I found many brands such as (going up with price) Generique/VTX3D/Sapphire/XFX/Powercolor for 7870, VTX3D/XFX/HIS/Powercolor/Generique/Sapphire for 7850, Palit/PNY/MSI/Gigabyte/Gainward for 660.

Need I to care for one of these?

Again, what online shop are you looking at for the PSU? We could peruse their site and come up with some PSU alternatives for lower prices.

Just my 2 cents on the GPU:

If you are not planning on getting any sort of mid-range or better GPU, you could really get away with just getting something like an Nvidia GT, instead of a GTX.

Since you will be using it strictly for "industrial" use (I use this term when people use a GPU for stuff like rendering and programming), you can get by with a GT 620/630/640. A friend of mine does similar stuff (he's worked for Activision, EA, Radical), and he's currently doing all his work on a laptop's GT650M. He only does heavy duty work on his desktop, most other things he gets away with on his laptop.

As an idea of cost savings going with a GT rather than a GTX, GT630 (2GB GDDR3) = $75 vs GTX 660 (1GB GDDR5)= $250. You'll certainly get much better performance from the GTX 660, but you'll also save almost $200 by getting a GT instead of a GTX.

Being in Italy I'm checking many aggregators, for single site I look mostly here E-Key

About the GPU I was considering also Radeon HD 7850 that is priced $40 below GTX 660, but I fear for compatibility, and configuration mess...

I don't know if are equivalent in term of feature, on Radeon I found a nice multimedia specs with video encoding and decoding that are not listed in Nvidia specs (but maybe I can't read the right things).

I really can't say exactly what kind of power I need, I simply find the 660 the cheapest with all latest a nvidia technologies...so that will be enough for many future uses.

Asking also on CryTech forum they suggested me GTX 650 or above.

No need for a soldering iron or dremel that's only for an xbox psu (or similar) and custom enclosure respectively.

btw - I scared myself soldering the other day: I fried a fuse on the motherboard of my T420 doing a screen upgrade - and managed the repair! But can understand how daunting it can be.

I think all the advice here sums up to: "Get a PE4L, PSU and graphics card of your choice and figure out an enclosure somewhere along the line" - but then we knew that already

Yes now it's absolutely clear. If you haven't other suggestion for cheap but good commercial PSU I now know exactly what to buy, thanks your all!

Again, you're right, but I was making assumptions that he might be using the eGPU for video converting or CUDA crunching. Like you said, there's absolutely no need for an eGPU kit if you're not going to play games or run GPU-based data crunching.

I only added AMD GPUs to the list as they are cheaper than their Nvidia counterparts; as well, AMD GPUs are much more abundant and you can get something like a 6450 for $25 here in Canada.

I will use eGPU to speed my landscape design under CryEngine SDK for environment impact analysis such as this one VisAsim with a radical new kind of wind turbine generator.

I will also probably do 3d video (BD 3D quality) editing and rendering, and it's possible I will do CUDA calc for option pricing in the future.

The main aim to eGPU it's now to speed my learning time on CryEngine and the needed tools such as Google Sketchup and maybe 3dmax: I will do simple things but with my HD 3000 everything will be painfully slow, and I prefer to learn doing things instead of learning only. I also think will be a good investment for the future: I want to learn and experiment more on 3D and also my present GPU will really limit the opportunity to learn.

But if you think eGPU it's still a money waste for me and there are better solutions, as you know I'm not an expert, please give me a hint!

About Nvidia/AMD no bias: I simply read many times Nvidia it's easier to setup, and will pay $25 more for that.

Will use a external 17" display I already have so to have more space respect my 12.5" and optimize performance.

- - - Updated - - -

If I were doing my setup from scratch, I'd probably use the xbox PSU I have laying around, with a smaller enclosure (but I happened to have a decent ATX PSU spare and a 560ti448 is 210W TDP). The issue in this thread is that the OP wants plug-n-play and not to mess around with a soldering iron and a dremel (can't think why not - that's half the fun ) - that's pretty much the only motivation for a PE4H v3.2 and comes with extra cost and card limitations.

I have a long time unused Xbox 1.6, but I just checked today and mount a 130w PSU, too small for my needs.

Anyway as you said I will go directly to the objective: have the eGPU working with no hw setup (not my best skill I think) and start the real fun using it .

I so hope reading all your posts that PE4L also doesn't need soldering iron and dremel . I can deal to live without enclosure to have the best cost/result, but want not to deal with soldering at al!

If you ask me, it comes down to 2 factors:

1. Do you want to build a custom case later on?

2. Cost

Performance-wise, they should be identical. The only difference should be whether or not you want to spend time, effort, and money into building an enclosure for it. The PE4H takes care of that for you (if you buy the optional aluminum case with it).

Ok that's the response I want.

Only another question: both of them come with all the cabling I need for? To connect with ExpressCard I'm sure (all the game is on that) but also to connect with PSU and SWEX if needed?

it might be worth checking eBay for the PE4L. my PE4L was $80 shipped.

PE4L V2.1b + EC2C + 60cm Flat HDMI (EC-060A) GEN.2 PCI-E / PCI-E Slot Adapter | eBay

I live in England and I did not have to pay VAT. It came straight through customs no problem.

Apart costs and apart case, my final concern its if there are more sense for a PE4L or PE4H.

I read infinite debate but still I don't understood if it make for me any difference.

About customs: I really don't understood. I simply use the dutycalculator and accept the results: I need to pay VAT, not customs.

Need to be honest: this morning I was thinking to giving up, after discovering I need also to pay VAT and customs tariff for a extra-EU adapter purchase.

But after receiving your new info and reading again about ExpressCard, PCIe, my laptop and so on I think I have put together the most important things.

I won't consider GPU costs (will be GTX 660 if I can find one for less than 200 USD), that's invariant in my choice, I want only to know which of the following options can be the good one.

Starting from my laptop: checked I have a PCIe 2.0 1x 5GBs max Intel 6 series Sandy Bridge ExpressCard interface.

These are the options (rounding costs, but including shipment, VAT and duties from dutycalculator.com, I consider apart the GPU, assume I don't need any other part if not listed):

PE4L V2.1: 110 USD

Case SilverStone SG05 with 300w PSU: 147 USD

Tot: 257 USD

PE4H V3.2 (with his case): 234 USD

PSU XFX ProSeries 450W: 62 USD

TOT: 296 USD

ViDock 4 overdrive 200w: 318 USD

Tot: 318 USD

Here is an enclosure I made with a 650Ti and XBox PSU:

Thanks but I sure does not have the skills to do something similar.