D2ultima

12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

With the 980 SLI installed in the P870DM it would idle about 90 to 120 seconds on battery before powering itself off. It was just too much power draw for such a small battery. I had to hurry up to move from point A to point B, but it was definitely worth it for the horsepower.

Honestly, that's probably the reason it never made it to market. I understand that most of the time I won't use battery for my machine, but 1.5 to 2 minutes is just nowhere near long enough for any machine called a "laptop". As for why it would shut off, I cannot understand. The GPUs should be able to downclock and the CPU should also be able to downclock on battery, and that shouldn't trigger an instant shutdown. I've spent more than a couple minutes on battery while gaming and recording without having my PC shut down, so I don't see why the P870DM 980 SLI version would, unless the whole system remains fully clocked up.

Blah. We need better battery tech. For certain.

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The P775DM is a nice looking machine, but the lack of a dual GPU option and the unified heat sink design ruins it for me; especially the unified heat sink. I used to think it was a good idea, but now that I have one I am not a fan of unified heat sinks. If they are going to use that kind of design it needs to be built with aerospace precision with something like 0.25mm production variance and nobody builds laptops with that kind of precision. 

My issue with the P775DM is the lack of USB ports. It has four in total; three USB 3.0 and one USB 3.1, and since none of my devices use USB 3.1, it means I have a laptop with 3 USB ports. Headset + Mouse + Controller and I can't plug in a mic or dedicated webcam? No. That's just not so good. I much quicker recommend the P870DM over the P775DM1 if peoples' purpose is for buying a 980, and if their purpose is a 980M, then the P770DM gets my recommendation. I honestly feel the P775DM1 just... isn't worth it for that design layout reason alone. Though I guess it's cheaper than the P870DM... oh well.

15 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Pascal 1080 should require less power, so that's even more of a reason that it would be stupid if it doesn't support SLI.

GM204 (980) is 165W in desktop land (200W on mobile is because they KNOW if they actually put a 165W limit on the card and prevented power & temp targets from being increased the cards could never be called overclockable; far less seeing them hold base clocks in scenarios higher than 1080p for gaming) and GP104 (1080) is 180W in desktop land, and rather easily hits that power target limit, even at stock configurations. Believe me, if a mobile 1080 ever appears, it will draw more power than Maxwell.

On 6/4/2016 at 2:54 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Voting with the wallet is definitely the way to go. The OEMs will have no motivation to sell turdbooks with Intel and NVIDIA BGA filth if enough people wise up and refuse to spend money on feces. The only way we're going to fix stupid is by killing it (making it unprofitable).  I know they make less money when people can upgrade, but let's face it... making less money selling machines that are upgradable is a whole lot better than not being able to sell anything when it's not. The smart businesses, like Eurocom and HIDevolution, know this and cater to upgraders by making the parts they need readily available and advertising their support for upgraders.

This is the huge issue though. Even if the parts (in upgrades in configuration websites) cost the same, the socketed machines are SO much more expensive. Like, it's a really tough sell to get a user with say... a $2000 USD limit who wants to buy a gaming machine and needs to buy in 2 weeks (won't be able to increase budget) to buy a socketed machine with a 970M instead of a 980M.

A P650RG with a 6820HK, 16GB (2x8GB) 2400MHz CL14 RAM, 980M 8GB with a 250GB 850 EVO M.2 and 1TB HGST Travelstar HDD with no OS and a 2 year warranty is $2014.45 USD at Mythlogic. BGA filth, as you'd say.

A P750DM with a 6700K, 16GB (2x8GB) 2400MHz CL14 RAM, 970M 6GB with a 250GB 850 EVO M.2 and 1TB HGST Travelstar HDD with no OS and a 2 year warranty is $1979.15 USD at Mythlogic. If I add the 330W adapter over the 230W adapter, it's $2044.14 USD, for a machine that for all intents and purposes, will game worse than the P650RG.

And then if you factor in the fact that the 6700K is ~$340 USD and the 6820HK is $378, and that the 980M is a ~$245+ USD cost over the 970M... what do I say? I still like to push for the idea of sockets, but the markups are huge. I understand the board is different and the cooling system and heatsinks are better, but is it $300 USD better? And is every consumer willing to eat that cost dry? It's the same issue like I was explaining over on NBR with the screen upgrade. It's literally a near 300% markup to get the 4K screen for the P870DM from vendors that sell it over buying it and installing yourself. You could even break a screen and buy a replacement and STILL save $$ on the upgrade.

And then, that's buying it from mythlogic, who I chose for the comparison as they're a Prema Partner. If I were to choose say... Sager, you could even get more (physical) stuff out of his budget in the P650RG machine, but I still won't be able to hit the 980M without sacrificing maybe the SSD or something on the P750DM. For people who don't overclock and are fine with stock and whatever, what's the point? I understand I'm currently acting in the vein of "why should people buy the socketed models anyway?" but that's exactly how the general public sees things. They're pushing HARD and price is a big issue. And even the other machines that have a premium attached to them like the Aorus models, even if they're hot, throttle-prone, bleh excuses of laptops, their keyboards and finishes and inborne software (no clevo hotkey crap) are attractive to the general consumer, though it's a bit easier to get people with larger budgets to switch. *sigh* I don't even know anymore. Blah. I wish I could get everyone to "just switch" like it was so easy and everyone could afford it.

On 6/4/2016 at 0:53 PM, Prema said:

Just wish they would bring 3D back along with them.

I wish people would start making 3D compatible games again. Even VR-ready games like Elite: Dangerous require literal hacking of the game to get it to actually work with 3D. I haven't dusted off my glasses in a long time... there's just nothing current to play with them. I played through Mass Effect 1 and Black Ops 1 and Black Ops 2 in 3D and some of BF3, but then... I just had nothing else. Every game coming out "not recommended" "fair" etc. Even "good" is so rare. And the games that do come out with decent 3D capabilities often run like blah and halving my framerate is just... not so bueno when I have 780Ms. 

Did you ACTUALLY overclock the second card?

It can accept a 980M, not a 980. The displays are wired to the iGPU on the optimus models. I don't know if the HD4000 can support 4K even if you have a DP1.2 port. Your best bet is to take it to a store and ask them to plug into one of the 4K screens and see if it works. The 980M in itself should not have an affect on connecting to this; 680Ms and 780Ms should be capable of running 4K as well.

1 hour ago, Prema said:

It's 120Hz AND g-sync this time...

Mmm I don't know how Gsync would work for me. But yes, that's good =D.

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Wonder if that will be a bolt-in upgrade possibility for existing P870DM-G owners or if the connection on the mobo will be a point of blockage?

It likely will simply be a bolt-in --> BIOS upgrade. If they change the LCD cover, then that means the model will need a revamp. They're going to use eDP anyway, so it likely won't matter too much about the connection.

Unless they make a new P870DM for Kaby Lake & Pascal to go alongside the 120Hz panels. 

120Hz you say.

I saw that 120Hz was supposedly making a comeback from ASUS first, but who cares about ASUS. Glad to see it's hitting the actual gaming machines.

Now I only hope that the panels have decent enough response times and then I'd be golden! Honestly, this is a HUGE load off my shoulders for if I want to upgrade to a new laptop. Officially, it will no longer automagically be a downgrade just to get a new machine.

Yup. It really is. Hitting capslock and stuff steals focus from any game that doesn't lock my mouse into it. It's ridiculous.

In terms of functionality, I had the same functionality now (excepting keyboard backlights) with this that I had on my D900F, but my D900F had absolutely no problems using any such software.

I need to add something here, I think.

Clevo needs to improve their software side of things. Their hotkey software should work properly with most normal usage scenarios of a machine, and should not interfere with other programs at all, among other things.

No P650Sx BSODs via touchpad/hotkey driver.

No logitech headset software being locked out of providing 7.1 surround (only 2.1 channels work) when hotkey is running.

Correct downloads of software versions online (P65xSx hotkey driver via their website and reseller websites by extension listed newer driver versions but downloaded the old version). It may not happen all the time, but it needs to be looked at.

No launching machines with lots of teething issues like all Clevo Skylake mobile CPU machines getting current-limit throttling as well as the P870DM and retaining it for quite some time after launch. Machines need to turn on and work properly without people enduring headache, like most other manufacturers usually do.

No needing to reinstall hotkey software because it screws up something like keyboard backlighting or something else on the system which people just won't attribute to being the hotkey software.

I don't need anything to be fancy, really. I just need it to work. Clevo fixes those basic software issues they tend to have and even without a Prema partner shop being available to a buyer, I can recommend them wholeheartedly to anyone without issue.

I could not say whether or not modded vBIOSes will help since those cards are broken, however those idle temps are in no way NEAR normal and you should repaste.

On 3/30/2016 at 9:14 PM, chap said:

with pascal/polaris beeing relesed in about 1 month i wouldnt buy a new laptop for 3.5k

On 3/30/2016 at 9:27 PM, Brian said:

 

Agreed, unless you need a new laptop RIGHT NOW, I'd wait on the new GPU releases. 

Pascal is not going to come out with any kind of good things anytime soon. That's likely near the end of the year, and as far as we know, they're rushing Pascal, and it may be another GTX 400 series-type launch. Pascal should not be waited for, and should be treated VERY HEAVILY as a "wait and see" situation. And then of course, they're likely only going to launch with midrange as well again, meaning the best stuff isn't coming out till much later, probably mid-next year if so early.

Polaris is AMD's entry level gaming cards. Or weaker. Polaris should not be what we're looking at, but no other information is available for their other lines (I've heard the names Greenland and Vega, but nothing else). Granted I'm much more inclined to see something this year in the power class we'd like with some good TDP, which would make waiting for them a decent idea, but we know they aren't focusing on mobile now. Hell, their statement was "we want to bring console-level performance to ultrabooks". As we know the 860M/960M has basically been doing this in competent-enough ultrabook-style laptops for quite some time, so it's clear they're still playing "catch up" in the mobile sector thus far. I expect good MXM top-end notebook cards from them later, but I don't know when those might arrive.

In this respect, I'd say that RIGHT NOW, maybe up until June, is a good time to upgrade an aging machine by either buying a new one or getting new GPUs. If you asked the same question near August or September, I'd say wait if you can deal with what you've got now for another few months.

On 3/31/2016 at 9:25 PM, Brian said:

Keep in mind WCCFTech is very anti-NVIDIA and they always tend to slant things as pro-AMD. Asynchronous compute is not a big deal and if the market leader (NVIDIA) is the weakest link, rest assured most devs won't make async heavy games that harm NVIDIA. 

I don't think they're really "anti-nVidia". I think they're just the only ones willing to call them out on their crap. Truth be told, I see a LOT of websites just kissing their behinds as Mr. Fox pointed out. I even saw multiple... *MULTIPLE!* articles claiming that the 970 does indeed "technically" run a 256-bit memory bus, for example. It's false. The chips all need to run in tandem, and they cannot. It's 224-bit + 32-bit. It's like me showing you I have a quad channel kit of RAM and putting one stick in another motherboard from the other three sticks and connecting the two motherboards somehow and then informing you that I'm running my memory in quad channel. It does not work that way. ANY time nVidia screws up, people seem to like neglecting speaking about them in a bad light.

• Clockblocking? 3/4 the web makes jokes about laptops burning up... except it's legitimately impossible since the cards throttle at 92c or 87c or (in ASUS' case) 75c on a freaking 860M?
• Bad drivers since 353.06? Nobody makes a single thread, and most people on the web are quick to say that the drivers are fine, and it's obviously everyone else's fault if any driver screws up a PC.
• WHQL drivers causing BSODs and screwing up Windows installs? TWO WHQL DRIVERS IN ONE MONTH IN FACT? BREAKING GPUS? Nah, let's not say anything much. And even if they say anything, they usually say "don't worry they have a beta coming out soon, they'll fix it". Not even considering the fact that WHQL certification on multiple drivers in one month's time period is breaking even clean windows installs... you know, the same thing WHQL certification is supposed to prevent? Doesn't that mean that they're either cutting corners or paying for instant WHQL certification? But nope, nobody says a thing, but everyone's quick to jump on and ridicule AMD for any issue that happens.
• Nobody even complains about the fact that so many maxwell GPUs have random crashes or need custom vBIOSes to function properly (something Kepler never NEEDED), even desktop GPUs (especially 980Ti/Titan X ones).

I won't deny that they probably go a bit far or enter into bashing territory, but honestly more people need to do it. nVidia is under the "Universal Love" banner while screwing their mainstream consumers over left and right, and only when people get hit HARD do they change their tune, even if the signs are all around.

As for the async-heavy games, we'll see. I doubt many of them will show up indeed, but their maxwell cards can do 31 async queues + 1 graphics pipeline, and Pascal should AT LEAST do the same. AMD can do 64 queues, but even AMD claims it's rather overkill to need so many queues for any game.

P37xSM and P37xSM-A's only differences are:

- native support for 800M and mostly native support for 900M on SM-A models

- fix the issue with one of the mSATA ports

- bottom cover is slightly changed in the layout of the vents; not a significant change or one that affects cooling much

- no 3D machine exists (P370SM3 is the final SLI 3D laptop ever created)

On 12/26/2015 at 5:45 PM, Spellbound said:

I blame @D2ultima

Yeah this one was my fault =D

Honestly, my quicker suggestion to you is a P770ZM (not DM) for 120Hz in a laptop. The problem is you'll need to do some modding for it.

Now, this is only theory, but it should work in practise. I simply have not found anybody brave enough to spend the money on it. Let me list the instructions for you.

The P770ZM has two configs. One with LVDS panels housing Chi Mei and AUO panels, and one with the IPS panel using eDP (most commonly sold as the P770ZM-G).

You need to get the P770ZM-G version (or one with the eDP connector alone; not necessarily the gsync model) and then buy the LCD cover for the LVDS panels. The reason is that the 120Hz screen has the same mounting orientation and screen size as the LVDS panels (as the P37xSM and P37xSM-A models all used those panels in the same LCD cover) and replace the other LCD cover with that. The LCD cover for the eDP panel has I believe top/bottom orientation for mounting screws, and you need side mounting orientation screws.

Once replaced, the eDP panel should simply just plug in, and you'll have your 120Hz. A prema BIOS is recommended for proper functionality of the screen; if you have any issues you could contact him and probably give him a small donation to help him help you =D.

This is the best way to get a powerhouse machine with few problems, great cooling AND 120Hz today.

The P770DM as far as I know uses another eDP standard (like the P870DM) so even if the mounting orientation and screen size was not an issue (it is), you'd still have to mod the eDP cable to handle it. I fully intend to attempt such a mod whenever I get a P870DM, but I can't recommend it to you. This is why there's little progress on that front. 120Hz panels are all but dead for laptops, and it's a real issue for people like myself and you.

Oh, and the 120Hz panel is the LG LP173WF2-TPB1

CPU limited in Witcher.

Ark is stupid

Arkham Knight is a wild card.

Try other games? Watch your clockspeeds in game (log them with GPU-Z)? See how things work out?

I'd go for one of the P7xxDM models in your case. The lack of Optimus is amazing for anybody who does a lot of gaming or tweaking, and they're currently the ONLY upgrade-able ODM on the market (for both CPU and GPU).

So yes, go with them =D.

Plus, Prema and his sBIOSes are >

It is the same Clevo.

I'd suggest getting the P870DM from Mythlogic or Eurocom. They can be upgraded.

Most of your laptop's components are in use 99% of the time your laptop is being used (except ODD).. That means CPU GPU RAM HDD/SSD/WiFI Motherboard ETC. almost 4 years ago I went for clevo without internal ODD. I opted in for HDD Caddy instead. And I wasn't wrong. I bought an extrenal USB BD burner(just in case I ever need to use a CD/DVD/BD - Its collecting dust now).. I used it only 2 times in 4 years.. That was also for some minor need. Of course I am not the only thing relevant here nor only what i want matters. Point is that ODD use is very limited in some cases none compared to other components of the laptop. You still have USB ports and External ODD's to record your stuff if you still need to use cd/dvd/bd.

That said, laptops internal compartmental space is very crucial. You do not want it to be super clunky and at the same time perform the very best. While maintaining a thin form factor or using that space for extra cooling elements makes more sense than making a really ugly ass bulky laptop.

That's just my opinion.. But I am pretty sure many agree. Although I wont be going for P870DM /G.. I was really glad to see it gone.

P.S Having an external ODD drive makes more sense.. Lets say you want to ever use it on more than 1 of your clevo's/ultrabooks/windows tablets you can just plug and play instead of 2 useless drives sitting internally.. Does it make sense?

Again, this is from a single user/gamer perspective. There's a lot of businesses that use the powerful machines like the P870DM's class on site locations and such. For them, an ODD is a great boon, as enterprise is slow to adopt change due to the amount of things needing to be changed. It is what it is.

I don't mind it being gone from these gaming machines, but it would be nice to see a powerful model, a more professional-themed one, that kept it in with a slightly different design. Say, one ODD + one HDD instead of two HDD, and the ODD is swappable for HDD and runs at SATA III speeds. That'd be a decent model for the business-oriented users that find the optical drives invaluable.

They should make the ODD bay more modular then. I guess you can swap it for an extra hard drive or SSD, but would be nice if they added other options too like card reader or some PCIe adapter cards.

But personally I'm glad to see it gone too. ODD drives and media, even in most work places that would use such a machine, are not that common from what I've seen. Best to use it for cooling. Hoping M.2 drives become more robust, and run much cooler so we can do away with 2.5" bays and keep slimming the form factor and/or more room for cooling or other neat new features.

I don't want to see 2.5" gone. At least one 2.5" drive in all machines. Until SSDs become as cheap as HDDs, as reliable as HDDs, and as long-lasting as HDDs (MLC-or-better SSDs) and as cool as HDDs.

We're also still at 512GB max M.2 drive size, even though mSATA was at 1TB (840/850 EVO), and nothing replaces some reliable, cheap, large storage.

You guys did a great job P870DM, especially completely removing the ODD Bay! Props to that. (ODD is a waste of internal laptop real estate. Especially in 2015 and on-wards)..

Actually, it's only mostly gamers/personal users who feel that way. Many users who use these things for work need ODD bays.

While I don't actually believe that it's necessary for machines like this, there are people (like Prema) who would use them for productivity (hence his want of the 4K screen), out in the field/at various locations/etc that could definitely use an ODD bay. I just felt like I should make that bit clear. My ODD bay has come in handy at times too, honestly. Though that's just because my country is backwards.

it means, those selections are eurocom's mistakes...right?? it is mysterious,,,those guys made mistakes,,,

It's their mistakes. You should call them (not e-mail) during their working hours if you can (you can use skype; it's free) and tell them of their error. Also, as far as I know, all the EM series can handle 900M chips.

Though, I have to ask... why would you want a 700M or 800M card when a 970M beats them all and overclocks better and runs cooler with a Prema mod?

Yes it works just fine. Keep in mind the Dell card has only 2GB compared to the Clevo/MSI versions with 4GB.

Wait, I thought 780Ms only had 4GB versions? Are you thinking about the 680M?

Thank you Prema for the update, we do have the 3D Models - I assume that EuroCom has the correct vBIOS to send us thanks to your efforts! And thanks to Khenglish as well for the modding your own drivers link.

=O!

More P370SM3 users! I love not being alone =D

They won't be using it only for that model...

I can just imagine you sitting and looking at us all speculating and drooling for information and you're just saying to yourself "hooooo boy, if only i could just tell them everything... but this is more fun (and legal) :D"

Yeah, but panel replacement is a bit work-intensive, and all for something with better picture quality (I assume) but no increase in resolution or refresh rate seems like a bit much. But thanks for sharing. I did some some mods about overclocking the display, but the whole thing makes me very nervous!

Well you have a laptop with optimus, so you wouldn't be able to overclock your screen nor get a higher refresh rate in a default screen, because you're limited by the iGPU. Hence why us enthusiast-type people hate optimus, and AT WORST it should be switchable on/off in the BIOS using MUX switches... at BEST it should not exist.

The panel improvement is for the colours and overall look, and is easier on a P150SM-A than you might think, but up to you if you want to do it.

I'd also prefer a better gamut / quality display. The display on my P150SM-A is horrid.

You could try replacing with this: AUO B156HW01 V4 Overview - Panelook.com

This is the wishes' topic...

I've no problem with people wishing for stuff, but going against the laws of physics isn't likely to happen. Ever.

You're doing the same thing everyone who buys Razer Blades is doing when you're asking for the most powerful, heaviest, hottest equipment in a thinner and lighter chassis than what's already available, while also getting a lighter, smaller PSU. While also asking for a larger fan, a larger screen in a smaller chassis and for it to be quieter in said thinner/lighter chassis, with a mechanical keyboard.

Everything contradicts itself, unless you were expecting those things to be spread out across three or four different models.