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Thunderbolt 2 eGPU [OSX] [Winsows 8.1] MXM or PCIe ($350 - $480 + Shipping)


trollinteemo

Which additional format eGPU would you like to be available?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Which additional format eGPU would you like to be available?

    • USB 3.0 : PCIe 2.0 x1
    • Expresscard : PCIe 2.0 x1
    • M.2 : PCIe 2.0 x2 / x4
    • mPCIe : PCIe 2.0 x1
      0
    • No thanks.good & affordable expresscard,mPCIe,NGFF & Thunderbolt adapters/enclosures already exist


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I believe I have found a way to produce thunderbolt 2 eGPUs for around $250 - $260 which means that the full price (including parts and labour would be around $350 + shipping. This price is based on an assumption I have made and will probably confirm (or deny) some time within the next two months, this is why I have also stated the tenative backup price of $480 in case my plan does not work as it should.

Currently this is what I have.

- A prototype that is similar to the form factor of this except with base dimensions of 5"x5"

post-27717-14494998131098_thumb.jpg

- Mostly functional software support on Windows 8, Windows 8.1, OSX Mavericks, and OSX Yosemite (OSX is limited by the gpu drivers written for it, which means that the external enclosure will only work on the select AMD & NVIDIA cards that are compatible, look on hackintosh sites for lists of cards and if you find one that is not included by default in osx send me the kext and I might be able to adapt it to work with TB)\

The Plan.

- Hot Plugging/Unplugging (NOT DEFINITE! Would be Windows only)

- Form factor similar to the MSI GUS II (I solved the power supply issue) with posibilites for a longer model for full length cards (GUS would only support half length)

post-27717-14494998131533_thumb.jpg

- MXM model for external laptop GPU

- SLI and Crossfire model (with full power requirement support)

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Ok, I have redesigned my production model. I will be making thunderbolt eGPU initially and will have the board design and component placement subsidized through crowd funding (not kickstarter), this will lower the overall cost for the board for the end product. After the initial production of the Thunderbolt eGPU I will start another crowdfunding campaign to create boards for the product selected in the poll above (yes I have figued out how to make USB 3.0 and M.w egpus). Note that the crowdfunding campaign for this may never happen depending on the adoption and funding from the thunderbolt egpu. After the production of both egpus, I will work on getting my MXM SLI egpu made (i have most of the board made in eagle), this will allow users to put either one or two mxm gpus in the form factor of a desktop gpu).

post-27717-14494998131286_thumb.png

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Is this going to be a side project, or do you plan on opening it up for general public use? Because if you choose the latter, then maybe you can crowd fund to drop down costs? I would love to back a project like that and can help spread the word for you!

Second, I was just wondering if the MXM model can simply use an 8-pin Dell DA-2 240W adapter to power up a very compact setup. The other eGPU adapter manufacturers have started doing this since the AC adapter is readily available, and that GPUs beginning the 750Ti have been very power efficient. In fact, the uber GTX880 is rumored to require only ~195W (like a GTX680) which works in an adapter like EXP GDCv6 without any external PSU. The only time I can justify adding a PSU is when SLI will be utilized. But you've already mentioned another adapter for that.

EDIT: Might I also add that I like how you are basically packaging this to work for OSX primarily, then just mentioning support for Hackintosh (for Windows support of course). We all know that this will work natively for Windows, but hopefully featuring it as an OSX addon (the rMBP "Graphics Upgrader!") will take Intel's prying eyes off of this potentially promising product.

Any foreseeable problems like hot unplugging errors will technically not be Microsoft's problem too. So it might just be worth the shot.

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To awnser your first question, currently this is just a side project for me. I can easily reproduce the board i am using in my egpu setup (as i use a custom pcb with a built in female > female pcie riser as well as some other nifty functions) in a smaller format, the only downside is I have to solder everything manually. Granted very few of the components are surface mount (mainly power management stuff) but the time to prep and actually assemble the boards definitely takes a chunk out of my schedule.

As for your psu question, I am planning on using an external power supply that supports up to 280w along with power management and stepping included on the custom board. I chose this as opposed to the da-2 for the pcie model as it would functionally support nearly any gpu under max - medhigh load (even the 290x2 as I understand). Your solution definitely makes more sense than mine for the MXM model. However, when I integrate different psus the serious problem of the power management board arises where I would have to separate the module from the main board (either through perforation or on a separate board). At hobby pcb prices that would functionally negate the cost effectiveness of the other psu. Frankly it just wouldnt make sense (sorry).

On to your edit, personally im not sure I understand your logic. Mentioning support for hackintosh adds windows support? Not entirely sure what that means, also why would making it an osx addon make intel not care? They make shit tons of money off of thunderbolt product licenses (i would guess primarily apple unless they get some genesis deal).

But yeah, I almost have my osx install package working that gives tons of options based on chipset, os, etc. I might even add support to add extra kexts for your own card and have it patch it on the fly. (would have to look at the current unofficial kexts to see if the majority would work) As for windows I am adapting a few command line programs using freedos and the like to convert an existing windows installation to UEFI while preserving data. (as BIOS windows needs egpu setup 1x, or most of them at least). Personally I try to give equal support to everyone. Not sure about existing thunderbolt drivers in linux though, will have to look into that then this would be the only easy setup universal egpu.

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Oh, forgot to say just as a side note, my current enclosure is 3d printed but in the future i might try to use aluminum or acrylic to make it look better. Only downside is higher costs.

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And im not sure how realistic crowdfunding/kickstarter will be. I dont really have much experience with manufacturing and although Apple seems to be fine with companies like Modbook using their products, not sure how happy intel would be considering the recent happenings with the th05, msi gus ii, and silverstone egpu.

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Sounds very interesting!

But given your limited time and resources (if you don't want to go the kickstart route) I imagine that the community would benefit greatly if you shared your plans and let people build themselves.

I understand that you'd possibly would want to make a buck on this, but if you cannot produce enough in short time I imagine people will look elsewhere/copy either way..

I think 41Hz Audio:Sounds Good to Me! might be a good example. They provide the parts and let people solder themselves. But they also sell assembled ones for a slightly higher price. Might be a way to go?

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Sounds very interesting!

But given your limited time and resources (if you don't want to go the kickstart route) I imagine that the community would benefit greatly if you shared your plans and let people build themselves.

I understand that you'd possibly would want to make a buck on this, but if you cannot produce enough in short time I imagine people will look elsewhere/copy either way..

I think 41Hz Audio:Sounds Good to Me! might be a good example. They provide the parts and let people solder themselves. But they also sell assembled ones for a slightly higher price. Might be a way to go?

You have a fair point, I was thinking about that sort of model if I were to do kickstarter. My only note about that is that many people would likely want it pre soldered, a while back there was a way to extremely cheaply solder your own expresscard egpu yet as I understand, it got very little following.

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Now that I think about it, I could probably pitch my idea to the Modbook team since they are used to dealing with manufacturing and assembly with already completed products. This would be an amazing addition to their already really awsome product and it isnt really offered anywhere else.

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I would probably have to make and sell a few first though.

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Agree with your hardware plans and two thumbs up for on-the-fly custom kext patching.

On to your edit, personally im not sure I understand your logic. Mentioning support for hackintosh adds windows support? Not entirely sure what that means, also why would making it an osx addon make intel not care? They make shit tons of money off of thunderbolt product licenses (i would guess primarily apple unless they get some genesis deal).

I was working on the premise that when an eGPU adapter for Windows (c/o Intel Thunderbolt technology) is sold to an end-user, the headache and blame is shared between the OS and not always just the adapter maker. It's not supposed to be Microsoft's fault that the OS will BSOD if an unaware user hot unplugs third party hardware. Not saying this happens all the time, but believe me it does. Based on the opinions of some of my friends in MSI (who have played around with their eGPU prototypes), eGPU adapters can't simply be released without that safety net protecting the OS maker (Microsoft). That is probably why when an adapter manufacturer mentions direct GPU compatibility for their product (ex. TH05), they get a cease-and-desist letter from Intel (even though Intel benefits from the payment for the TB license).

Now for my logic. How about we try to use another OS to tank the eGPU problem. If Apple does not object in having "unstable" third party hardware like eGPUs or Modbooks, then we can produce the Thunderbolt product easily without Intel being told on by Apple to pull out the hardware (as what I'm speculating Microsoft does). We can package it as a pure OSX product so that Microsoft is relieved of this pressure when consumers attempt to add an eGPU to their notebooks. "It is not Windows-compatible" as what they might say.

Now we know that this is not true, since Apple hardware is most certainly compatible with our Microsoft-run hardware. So saying that this "OSX exclusive" product is compatible with Hackintosh hardware is our clue for consumers that it may work with Windows.

tl;dr

Making an "OSX exclusive" TB eGPU adapter will (hopefully) not make Microsoft whine complain to Intel about the product's end-user problems being blamed on the OS. This lame "OSX-only" excuse will allow us to sell the adapter and not get a cease and desist letter from Intel (as speculated is being requested by Microsoft).

Hope this clears things up.

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Thats actually a quite brilliant marketing idea.

BTW just some updates here, ive done a bunch of testing on a macbook pro 2013 and have gotten it to fully recognise and work on an external monitor through hotplugging, yet the internal monitor does not function off the egpu until after a reboot. I could integrate a function where it asks to reboot yet I think it might be more stable just on the external monitor as I still dont know what happens if you unplug it while its running the internal monitor (i have probably tried it but I am blanking on the result).

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Thats actually a quite brilliant marketing idea.

BTW just some updates here, ive done a bunch of testing on a macbook pro 2013 and have gotten it to fully recognise and work on an external monitor through hotplugging, yet the internal monitor does not function off the egpu until after a reboot. I could integrate a function where it asks to reboot yet I think it might be more stable just on the external monitor as I still dont know what happens if you unplug it while its running the internal monitor (i have probably tried it but I am blanking on the result).

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Thats actually a quite brilliant marketing idea.

Thanks. I've always felt that we can always rely on Apple to help us hype up an already working "Ground-breaking, Innovative!" feature/product.

I could integrate a function where it asks to reboot yet I think it might be more stable just on the external monitor

Maybe you can put up a warning regarding instability issues and a, "Are you sure you want to continue (and restart)" message.

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OK so just an update since im away, im working on the smaller board design in eagle, right now i have created packages for all of my components and ive been doing more of the software work on my phone. unfortunately only a droid 4

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Ok so im home again, I'm probably going to buy my hardware within a few days. (for the PCIe model) after that is done the rest should be trivial. The MXM parts are sourced and I can actually produce it for a price lower than advertised (we will see once i get my pcie hardware if it will be lower than the first price or the second).

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Ok so im home again, I'm probably going to buy my hardware within a few days. (for the PCIe model) after that is done the rest should be trivial. The MXM parts are sourced and I can actually produce it for a price lower than advertised (we will see once i get my pcie hardware if it will be lower than the first price or the second).

Nice! Pictures of your process would be nice, if you'd care to share that :)

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Since you're building what appears to be the gold standard eGPU adapter, I just wanted to ask something. Will this be a strict Thunderbolt-only adapter, or is there a possibility to include a retro slot for EC/mPCIe? At the moment, most notebooks with TB slots are Asus/Apple products.

If you're really planning to mass produce and sell, then maybe having EC/mPCIe compatibility can attract the other group of eGPU enthusiasts (users of Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still get a Thunderbolt2-only adapter (mostly for testing and future-proofing) but it won't replace the PE4L 2.1b that I've been using all this time.

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Since you're building what appears to be the gold standard eGPU adapter, I just wanted to ask something. Will this be a strict Thunderbolt-only adapter, or is there a possibility to include a retro slot for EC/mPCIe? At the moment, most notebooks with TB slots are Asus/Apple products.

If you're really planning to mass produce and sell, then maybe having EC/mPCIe compatibility can attract the other group of eGPU enthusiasts (users of Lenovo, HP, Dell, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still get a Thunderbolt2-only adapter (mostly for testing and future-proofing) but it won't replace the PE4L 2.1b that I've been using all this time.

1st MSI builds some awsome thunderbolt laptops (ws60).

Also this isnt meant to be the "gold standard" of all egpus. What would make this so amazing is that compared to almost any other thunderbolt egpu setup i can provide the full speed of thunderbolt 2 within a form factor that is comparable to the MSI GUS II (which will never come out) and with the full support for the power requirements of most if not all gpus.

Theoretically I could have an option to inlcude a pe4l or pe4h along with my power board compnents and enclosure (since im planning on using the suggested idea of selling it as a kit) instead of the thunderbolt pcie adapter, however because of the nature of how the board would work it would require production of a completely new set of boards along with modification of the enclosure. After I release the specs and images from the thunderbolt product, if anyone wants to adapt it for the pe4l then I would be glad to include it on the site and share profits.

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Interested in the MXM version. Would it return picture from the eGPU's DVI/DP to the internal LVDS/eDP through the MXM's own lines? Would it be flat/ribbon cable, or HDMI like (thicker, because of more lines obviously)?

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1st MSI builds some awsome thunderbolt laptops (ws60).

You're absolutely right. I skipped out on MSI, but was supposed to add that on TB notebooks.

What would make this so amazing is that compared to almost any other thunderbolt egpu setup i can provide the full speed of thunderbolt 2 within a form factor that is comparable to the MSI GUS II (which will never come out) and with the full support for the power requirements of most if not all gpus.

That's absolutely great and I wish you the best in that. @Tech Inferno Fan, Would a double lane TB2 eGPU be a good idea? Not for SLI but for increasing the bandwidth to two 20GT/s (~40GT/s). Something about Series-8 systems and switching of PCI lanes that I'm not too sure of.

Theoretically I could have an option to inlcude a pe4l or pe4h along with my power board compnents and enclosure (since im planning on using the suggested idea of selling it as a kit) instead of the thunderbolt pcie adapter, however because of the nature of how the board would work it would require production of a completely new set of boards along with modification of the enclosure.

Nah, it was just for theoretical discussion cause the market share of TB users is relatively smaller but surely growing. If costs will go up, or another set of hardware is needed, then just stick to TB2 and leave the older tech to the larger companies like EXP, and Bplus.

Good luck with your plans and I do hope you consider using the OSX platform as leverage in advertising. You might just get that lucky break and penetrate the market without being pulled out of production like MSI, and Gigabyte.

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Interested in the MXM version. Would it return picture from the eGPU's DVI/DP to the internal LVDS/eDP through the MXM's own lines? Would it be flat/ribbon cable, or HDMI like (thicker, because of more lines obviously)?

I know i can definitely handle external hdmi /mini DP / dvi for the MXM version. Not sure how well optimus / virtuo would work though.

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You're absolutely right. I skipped out on MSI, but was supposed to add that on TB notebooks.

That's absolutely great and I wish you the best in that. @Tech Inferno Fan, Would a double lane TB2 eGPU be a good idea? Not for SLI but for increasing the bandwidth to two 20GT/s (~40GT/s). Something about Series-8 systems and switching of PCI lanes that I'm not too sure of.

Nah, it was just for theoretical discussion cause the market share of TB users is relatively smaller but surely growing. If costs will go up, or another set of hardware is needed, then just stick to TB2 and leave the older tech to the larger companies like EXP, and Bplus.

Good luck with your plans and I do hope you consider using the OSX platform as leverage in advertising. You might just get that lucky break and penetrate the market without being pulled out of production like MSI, and Gigabyte.

It is my understanding that the second lane is reserved for downstream devices ie (a tb hard drive), it would be theoretically possible to use a second tb chip and a custom riser to achieve x8 speeds however that would be rediculously expensive and would not offer enough gain to warrent the hassle.

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Ok, so I have contacted my suppliers for the enclosure and have gotten a quote that is within reasonable range, I have my parts list sourced, and I am nearing the finishing touches on my custom pcb. All thats left is to test my theory about TB and then ill be ready to make kits and ship them.

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I am getting the parts within the next week. However I nolonger have an easy method to test my egpu setups. Thusly I am turning to you guys and anyone who wants a fairly priced egpu in a nice form factor, to help me raise money to get a cheap thunderbolt laptop (i found one for around $400 that I can hackintosh and work with). If you donate more than $25 you will recieve a % off order coupon upon the release of the egpu kit. (the release entirely depends on whether I can test it to iron out the design, so this project kinda rests on you guys.

Right now you can donate via paypal and soon I will also have a bitcoin link up (if you are that kind of person).

Just to show you guys I am serious, once I get to my laptop I will post some of my preliminary scripts for installing on mac, nothing major just support scripts (sorry but you will have to wait until the release to get the easy installers)

<form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post" target="_top">

<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_donations">

<input type="hidden" name="business" value="UBTQ2TTSZA3ZG">

<input type="hidden" name="lc" value="US">

<input type="hidden" name="item_name" value="Scorched Earth Project">

<input type="hidden" name="currency_code" value="USD">

<input type="hidden" name="bn" value="PP-DonationsBF:btn_donateCC_LG.gif:NonHosted">

<input type="image" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif" border="0" name="submit" alt="PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!">

<img alt="" border="0" src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif" width="1" height="1">

</form>

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I am getting the parts within the next week. However I nolonger have an easy method to test my egpu setups. Thusly I am turning to you guys and anyone who wants a fairly priced egpu in a nice form factor, to help me raise money to get a cheap thunderbolt laptoppixel.gif

Wait, I don't get it... you say you're in the process of designing an eGPU setup yet have no way to test it?

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Wait, I don't get it... you say you're in the process of designing an eGPU setup yet have no way to test it?

Considering the poll for choosing a secondary port, I'm guessing he means that it's not as easy testing out multiple prototypes on multiple hardware now. It's either that or idk lolz.

Just a few questions though:

  1. What is the bandwidth of the USB3 port? Is it larger than a PCIe 2.0 @ 5GT/s?
  2. Why the rush for production and release? Wouldn't it be better to wait for Broadwell where there will be even more TB2 Ultrabooks and the alleged rMBA?
  3. In line with #2, why not start the crowd-funding already then plan the actual release some time in March? That'll get you the funds you need for prototyping and hardware testing and give enough time for the newer TB2 notebooks to surface. Maybe allotting 300-500 units at $200-$300 price point for backers is enough for the campaign. Just use the "Apple-compatible" market strategy to swing-in more backers.

Seems like we can take your word for it, and that you can deliver a great and fully-working product. I see no reason why we can't properly back your project through a formal crowd-funding website. That's my opinion at least. You can always count on the eGPU community to give it the proper hype so long as the retail price point is fairly reasonable.

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@trollinteemo

A unique Thunderbolt from you is a no go. Intel will not include you as a developer. The best you can do is take other Thunderbolt product (eg: Firmtek Thundertek or AKiTiO Thunder2 board) and try to create a product out of it. Though given the DIY eGPU community's ingenuity, you'd be competing against individuals doing the same already.

There is a Russian seller BIZON that has pretty much taken the ingenuity expressed here added some laser etched acrylic enclosure with his logo on it and tried to make a huge upmark out of it: DIY eGPU experiences [version 2.0]

Then the only item on your list that gauges interest is the USB 3.0 product. While I'd love to see one I'd 95% sure you will be able to deliver one. Why? BPlus tried several years ago using a PLXTech adapter backend and couldn't do it. The hardware wasn't the problem, there are USB 3.0 to PCIe adapters..

The problem is the transport protocol. eGPUs use PCIe and there is no readily available driver to deliver a PCIe over USB 3.0. The demo above worked only because they used a heavily modified S3 video driver. So then that is a dead end. If you did manage to make a USB 3.0 eGPU then you'd have a unique, never-before-created product and so could expect a great reward for your efforts.

So all in all, I do not see any products here. As such I'll ask:

1. Please be mindful of introducing vaporware. It intrudes on genuine DIY eGPU discussion using tangible eGPU adapters/enclosures.

2. Please consider adding a poll item "Not interested. There are great and affordable expresscard, mPCIe and Thunderbolt adapters/enclosures already" option to give a more comprehensive response to your poll.

No insult intended!

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You have some very tangible points and I understand why you would and should be skeptical since I have noting to offer right now that wouldn't compromise the integrity of what I intend to make. (Board schematics, part numbers, software etc). As for the communities ingenuity I have no doubt that my product will be replicated to some degree within a few months however in the short time I have been here there have been two notable gaps in creating an egpu, compactness and ease of setup both of which I wanted to achieve in a product in order to bring egpus to a larger community (not just the tech savvy also average gamers and video editors). Also I believe even if my egpu doesn't work out I can still sell my software

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