jd63636 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Great thread everyone. As a Alienware defector and new Clevo owner I have been looking for additional tips and tricks to improve my cooling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jd63636 Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 On my DS Krypton / Clevo P177SM Temps for both CPU 4810MQ and GPU GTX 870M with stock paste were too high even under moderate load so I used black aluminum tape on both the CPU and GPU to seal the fans to the heat sinks and repasted with Prolimatech Pro-PK3.The GPU twice now. CPU temps are now quite good and I have not seen them exceed 71c .However I am still struggling with GPU temps.It appears Clevo has been too conservative on fan profiles and Heat sink mounting on the GPU die seems a bit suspect on the precision and tightness of the contact with the die.Do you have any other suggestions for improving the cooling on the GPU?The only comparison I have to go by is the Alienware M17X R4 I retired with a GTX 680M which never exceeded 65c during an entire three hour raid in the heat of summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 On my DS Krypton / Clevo P177SM Temps for both CPU 4810MQ and GPU GTX 870M with stock paste were too high even under moderate load so I used black aluminum tape on both the CPU and GPU to seal the fans to the heat sinks and repasted with Prolimatech Pro-PK3.The GPU twice now. CPU temps are now quite good and I have not seen them exceed 71c .However I am still struggling with GPU temps.It appears Clevo has been too conservative on fan profiles and Heat sink mounting on the GPU die seems a bit suspect on the precision and tightness of the contact with the die.Do you have any other suggestions for improving the cooling on the GPU?The only comparison I have to go by is the Alienware M17X R4 I retired with a GTX 680M which never exceeded 65c during an entire three hour raid in the heat of summer.Prema also has 2 fan speed options for his BIOS. If you have problems make sure you use the "cool" option. Your reseller probably is using the "quiet" version. Make sure you backup your BIOS first in case you have to RMA for any reason in the future. This might be enough to make your temps fine without resorting to modifying the heatsink.Did you foil-wrap the bottom side of the CPU radiator? There is a gigantic air gap that reduces air flow by around 1/3 if you don't add foil. If you did then this is likely why your CPU temps are now fine, with the repaste having little impact.Also all clevo heatsinks (CPU and GPU) ship with a warped die contact plate. Have you tried increasing the pressure at all? This helps some, but the only true fix it to sand the contact plate on a level surface. If you do this GPU temps are actually much better than m18x temps since the Clevo fan moves 2.5x more air than the alienware GPU fans. Clevo uses much stronger fans because they don't realize they have the die contact problem :/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexcrosshome Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Wow so many simple fixes and now my clevo is running 10 degrees cooler! Thanks alot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Prema also has 2 fan speed options for his BIOS. If you have problems make sure you use the "cool" option. Your reseller probably is using the "quiet" version. Make sure you backup your BIOS first in case you have to RMA for any reason in the future. This might be enough to make your temps fine without resorting to modifying the heatsink.Did you foil-wrap the bottom side of the CPU radiator? There is a gigantic air gap that reduces air flow by around 1/3 if you don't add foil. If you did then this is likely why your CPU temps are now fine, with the repaste having little impact.Also all clevo heatsinks (CPU and GPU) ship with a warped die contact plate. Have you tried increasing the pressure at all? This helps some, but the only true fix it to sand the contact plate on a level surface. If you do this GPU temps are actually much better than m18x temps since the Clevo fan moves 2.5x more air than the alienware GPU fans. Clevo uses much stronger fans because they don't realize they have the die contact problem :/I sanded my the die contact plate yesterday for my P170SM-A (Sager NP8278). Huge difference in my temps. I used a machinist's 1-2-3 block standing up on the 1" side to get at the contact area. My temps have dropped from low 80's playing games to high 60's. I also replaced the AS5 with MX-4 and tweaked the springs a tag for more force against the GPU die. Be careful doing that last part. Previously I cut a big hole right over the fan inlet for the GPU. Got that idea from this thread as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @deadsmiley Yeah the difference is big. Remember that the CPU heatsink has the same problem too. Hopefully clevo can someday figure out how to not warp the plate when bonding the heatpipes and this will no longer be necessary.I read that you hit 92C still even after these mods, and the cooling and do even better than that. With fans at full speed I would expect your voltage and clocks to never exceed 85C with the gpu fan intake fixed and a level contact plate. One problem I had is that I would slightly bend my heatpipes without realizing it after sanding the plate, and thus the radiator would be hitting the laptop frame before the contact plate was level with the die when tightening screws. I would check that. I think you also still might not be getting enough die pressure. When removing the heatsink and looking at the die you should only see a layer of paste that is so thin that it is transparent, evenly across the entire die.If clevo resellers reading this could tell clevo this problem maybe we could make this happen. You can visibly see the warping when looking at the die contact plate on the die side. You will see stress marks perfectly following the heatpipes on the other side. The heatsink must be very clean to see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @deadsmiley Yeah the difference is big. Remember that the CPU heatsink has the same problem too. Hopefully clevo can someday figure out how to not warp the plate when bonding the heatpipes and this will no longer be necessary.I read that you hit 92C still even after these mods, and the cooling and do even better than that. With fans at full speed I would expect your voltage and clocks to never exceed 85C with the gpu fan intake fixed and a level contact plate. One problem I had is that I would slightly bend my heatpipes without realizing it after sanding the plate, and thus the radiator would be hitting the laptop frame before the contact plate was level with the die when tightening screws. I would check that. I think you also still might not be getting enough die pressure. When removing the heatsink and looking at the die you should only see a layer of paste that is so thin that it is transparent, evenly across the entire die.If clevo resellers reading this could tell clevo this problem maybe we could make this happen. You can visibly see the warping when looking at the die contact plate on the die side. You will see stress marks perfectly following the heatpipes on the other side. The heatsink must be very clean to see them.I hit 92c after the mod, but I ran this at 1153 core, 1475 memory, 1.0875v. It was toasty. I don't have any cooling issues on the GPU running locked at 993 core, 1475 memory and .975v. It gets to the upper 60's during gaming so it's a good 15c cooler as it sits.I figured the CPU heatsink would be no better. Thanks for the confirmation.If the Alienware heatsinks are better (flatter with a finer finish) then this problem lies squarely on Clevo. They specify the requirements for the heatsink which is manufactured to Clevo specs by Foxcon. That is my opinion from many years in the manufacturing industry. Just because a component is sourced from the same company does not mean that component is (literally) built to the same standards. Think VW vs. Porsche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 What AW/Dell does different is they have a much thicker copper contact to the processor die. This is too thick to accidentally bend when bonding heatpipes. Clevo uses a thin copper sheet for their heatsink base, and too much pressure is applied when bonding the heatpipes, bending the heatsink base. I'm fairly certain clevo does not specify that their heatsink plates are supposed to be bent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 What AW/Dell does different is they have a much thicker copper contact to the processor die. This is too thick to accidentally bend when bonding heatpipes. Clevo uses a thin copper sheet for their heatsink base, and too much pressure is applied when bonding the heatpipes, bending the heatsink base. I'm fairly certain clevo does not specify that their heatsink plates are supposed to be bent.I agree with you! However, if Clevo does not specify a tolerance for die contact surface flatness then anything that Foxcon produces would be good to ship. Or... I could be full of crap. Just speculation here. All I really know is that my GPU plate was about as flat as a Lays potato chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I see what you're saying now. Well clevo's fault or foxconn's, the damn plate is bent ruining what would otherwise be the top laptop cooling hands down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I see what you're saying now. Well clevo's fault or foxconn's, the damn plate is bent ruining what would otherwise be the top laptop cooling hands down.That gives me hope. I have already seen very positive results from less than an hours work. It could use more work. Still has a bit of a low spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arise Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Can you post a picture with what you are trying to accomplish?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Can you post a picture with what you are trying to accomplish?Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSure. It will be this weekend before I will be messing with it again.I will be getting the CPU flat. It hasn't been touched yet so it should be easier to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Sure. It will be this weekend before I will be messing with it again.I will be getting the CPU flat. It hasn't been touched yet so it should be easier to see.Pictures would be very good. That way we can have something to show resellers to pressure clevo about and maybe get this fixed from the factory. I've fixed all of my heatsinks so I can't take any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damianpt Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 I wanna thx this community because reading and checking all this "bugs" i got a better cooling on my p150em still gotta fix the pressure problem on the GPU only applyed the tape fix yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbodnar Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I just ordered a p150sm... my second sager in like almost 8 years. I think the first one I had had a 9800m gt in it, or something like that.My question is though, I see most of this is talking about the EM, does anybody here have any experience as to if some of these problems were fixed with the SM model? I just order the laptop, and probably wont be seeing it for at least another week. Im just trying to get everything i need together before hand so I can get this thing overclocked, and running cool!!Also I dont know if this changes anything or not, but I got it with the GTX 880m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have the P170SM-A with a GTX 880M. They appear to have the same cooling issues and the fixes are very similar. I know for a fact that my GPU and CPU heatsinks are (were) warped on the die contact area. I think fixing that issue along with the airflow through the inlet vents are where you will see the biggest cooling gains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 I have the P170SM-A with a GTX 880M. They appear to have the same cooling issues and the fixes are very similar. I know for a fact that my GPU and CPU heatsinks are (were) warped on the die contact area. I think fixing that issue along with the airflow through the inlet vents are where you will see the biggest cooling gains.Another huge issue is that the underside of the CPU radiator needs to be foiled. The fact that the radiator extends below the motherboard makes it so that the fan sucks back in lots of air that blew through the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbodnar Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Well, sounds like when I do receive this laptop, im going to have to just pull it apart, and take alook around to see what I can mess with.Im also seeing folks here and there are modifying the backing plate under the laptop for better airflow. To bad there wasn't a factory fix being done for this since I do carry my laptops quite alot. I wouldn't want to grab it by a custom made vent out of wire mesh, and push it into a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted July 6, 2014 Share Posted July 6, 2014 Well, sounds like when I do receive this laptop, im going to have to just pull it apart, and take alook around to see what I can mess with.Im also seeing folks here and there are modifying the backing plate under the laptop for better airflow. To bad there wasn't a factory fix being done for this since I do carry my laptops quite alot. I wouldn't want to grab it by a custom made vent out of wire mesh, and push it into a fan.I used a small file to widen each individual slit on mine. It's still strong enough to hold the laptop by the air intake vents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beezow Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Another huge issue is that the underside of the CPU radiator needs to be foiled. The fact that the radiator extends below the motherboard makes it so that the fan sucks back in lots of air that blew through the radiator.Is this a problem unique to the P1xx series? I don't think the radiator extends below the mobo in my P370SM, but then again I'm not entirely sure I understood what you meant either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khenglish Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Is this a problem unique to the P1xx series? I don't think the radiator extends below the mobo in my P370SM, but then again I'm not entirely sure I understood what you meant either.P370SM is fine. This applies to all P1xx laptops though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Another huge issue is that the underside of the CPU radiator needs to be foiled. The fact that the radiator extends below the motherboard makes it so that the fan sucks back in lots of air that blew through the radiator.I didn't really look at that. I don't overclock my CPU though.- - - Updated - - -I used a small file to widen each individual slit on mine. It's still strong enough to hold the laptop by the air intake vents.I did that too initially. It may have been your post that suggested it. It's crazy how tiny those slits are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadsmiley Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Pictures would be very good. That way we can have something to show resellers to pressure clevo about and maybe get this fixed from the factory. I've fixed all of my heatsinks so I can't take any. Pictures of the CPU heatsink. It wasn't as bad as the GPU heatsink. I didn't take temp readings before I did this so... yeah. CPU with the ID7. I don't like this stuff. It hardens over time and is hard to remove. I haven't been able to do it without scratching the die on my GPU/CPU. CPU heatsink after cleaning. The deformations in the heatsink from where the heatpipes were attached are clearly visible when reflected in the light. As I said above, this is not as bad as my GPU heatsink, which was really warped. It had high spots and low spots. Notice that the deformations run right through the center of the die contact area. Notice the insulating tape applied to the heatsink. This (I assume) is to prevent accidental contact with the row of tiny components on top of the CPU (see pictures above). I used a sharpie to blacken the heatsink. In theory, this would help me see the high spots and the low spots. Overall it was surprisingly flat with the exception of the where the heatpipes were attached. I removed a portion of the insulating tape. There isn't anything the heatsink base can contact on the short side. I also removed two of the mounting screws. Be care with the little plastic washers that retain the hold down springs. They are small. The washers are split in one spot. That is my machinist 1-2-3 block. One without holes would be a good choice since it would support the sandpaper better, but it's what I had so I used it. I used WD-40 to wet the sandpaper. I was pointed to a desktop CPU lapping guide and they used water and a drop of dishsoap. That would probably be better. Cleanup would be a lot easier. You just can't do this dry, it has to be wet. It is messy, so do it outside or someplace you don't want copper slurry. I used gloves too. One thing I should have done was remove the thermal pad along the lower edge of the heatsink. I ended up mangling the crap out of this without even trying. I pieced it back together. New thermal pad material has been ordered. I had 320, 500 and 1000 grit paper. I mostly used the 1000 grit since I didn't need (or want) to take off a lot of material. I got most of the deformation removed. I will come back to it later after my thermal pads arrive. Here is a picture of before I removed the ID7 paste from my GPU heatsink. The deformations from attaching the heatpipes can be clearly seen. I did find a pic of my bad repaste job. I noticed that my heat sink had some high spots in the middle, so I took a stone too it. These are the shiny spots in this picture. You can't see the bulk of the high spot because it's covered in thermal paste. It was much worse than my CPU heatsink. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrbodnar Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 deadsmiley, thanks for the post and the pics, definitely going to help me when I take mine apart to check it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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