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PASCAL-MXM & P-SERIES REFRESH


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I have a question, and I mean it will all sincerity.

Since 1080 is out of the question... and 1070 is not nearly as good as 1080...

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You get bonus points if you can throw a 1070 into a P700 series (the 980 and 1080 were never options with current cooling and size, unless doing what Khenglish did and throwing a 980 core on a 980m card, which may not work with the 10 series)...

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32 minutes ago, ajc9988 said:


You get bonus points if you can throw a 1070 into a P700 series (the 980 and 1080 were never options with current cooling and size, unless doing what Khenglish did and throwing a 980 core on a 980m card, which may not work with the 10 series)...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

 

Unfortunately I don't see any good BGA swap options for this series. 1080 core cannot go on 1070 due to GDDR5/GDDR5X difference. Mobile 1070 core has more shaders than desktop 1070, so no upgrade there either.

 

Maxwell and Pascal BGAs are much different, so no go on putting a Pascal on a Maxwell board.

 

The MSI 1070 can likely be crammed into systems with relatively minor mods. The MSI 1080 would require extreme case mods, heatsink mods, and some motherboard mods, but if I somehow got one I would definitely do them.

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1 hour ago, ajc9988 said:


You get bonus points if you can throw a 1070 into a P700 series (the 980 and 1080 were never options with current cooling and size, unless doing what Khenglish did and throwing a 980 core on a 980m card, which may not work with the 10 series)...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
 

Does "bonus points" translate into 3DMark points and other performance metrics that match 1080?

 

If not, you're merely doing your best to squeeze some lemonade from the box of lemons when you really wanted a glass of orange juice.

 

Personally, I have a hard time with the idea of aspiring to second tier performance as a solution. It's an upgrade, but a disappointment at the same time because it will never be the best option.

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27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Does "bonus points" translate into 3DMark points and other performance metrics that match 1080?

 

If not, you're merely doing your best to squeeze some lemonade from the box of lemons when you really wanted a glass of orange juice.

 

Personally, I have a hard time with the idea of aspiring to second tier performance as a solution. It's an upgrade, but a disappointment at the same time because it will never be the best option.

 

Yes, but that's for guys like us....The other 98 percent of the people just want something better than what they have. :)

And a 1070N is better than a 980N. Uses less watts and give more performance for less money on an upgrade. Provided one can get one to work in a machine other than what it was designed for. :D

And anyone coming from a single 980M or lower...A 1070N is an upgrade. It is also an upgrade to a single 980N, just not as much.

 

 

Other news.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9946886/fs/9225544/fs/9686773/fs/9954310/fs/9988160/fs/8291254

I would recommend anyone with sli 980M's to just wait it out, because the only thing beating it is SLI 1080's & 1070's And I would add SLI 980N as an option, but it seems you would need more than 2 psu's to run at full speed/locked down speed. I think Brother Fox had that at over 800W?

I for the life of me haven't been able to get past 500W yet. So far 477W max.

Edited by johnksss
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1 minute ago, johnksss said:

 

Yes, but that's for guys like us....The other 98 percent of the people just want something better than what they have. :)

And a 1070 is better than a 980. Uses less watts and give more performance for less money on an upgrade. Provided one can get one to work in a machine other than what it was designed for. :D

And anyone coming from a single 980M or lower...A 1070N is an upgrade. It is also an upgrade to a single 980N, just not as much.

 

 

Other news.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9946886/fs/9225544/fs/9686773/fs/9954310/fs/9988160/fs/8291254

I would recommend anyone with sli 980M's to just wait it out, because the only thing beating it is SLI 1080's & 1070's And I would add 980N as an option, but it seems you would need more than 2 psu's to run at full speed/locked down speed. I think Brother Fox had that at over 800W?

I for the life of me haven't been able to get past 500W yet. So far 477W max.

Yes, at one point with some very extreme overclock/overvolting it did go that high. The 180W 980 SLI easily pulled 725W in 3DMark 11 and Fire Strike without going to extremely high overvoltage.

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, at one point with some very extreme overclock/overvolting it did go that high. The 180W 980 SLI easily pulled 725W in 3DMark 11 and Fire Strike without going to extremely high overvoltage.

So they seriously came down in wasting watts as a whole. Because my P570WM3 was also pulling past 700 watts, while this P870DM3 is doing far better with less. That means that there is more untapped power to work with later after a righteous unlock, but....these machines would need to be far colder for you to actually capitalize on it though...., but more is better in our book. :D

Edited by johnksss
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8 minutes ago, johnksss said:

So they seriously came down in wasting watts as a whole. Because my P570WM3 was also pulling past 700 watts, while this P870DM3 is doing far better with less. That means that there is more untapped power to work with later after a righteous unlock, but....these machines would need to be far colder for you to actually capitalize on it though...., but more is better in our book. :D

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. More is always better. The goal is not to use less power than before... use just as much, but do more with it, or use even more and do more with more.  There is were the value of the firmware mods come it.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. More is always better. The goal is not to use less power than before... use just as much, but do more with it, or use even more and do more with more.  There is were the value of the firmware mods come it.

All I can say at this point is...good luck with that.

 

Edit. Had to run out for a bit.

 

So I will explain this part everyone seems to be missing.

The part we need to change to be able to compete against desktop cpus in our class is the voltage. Without being able to go in the 1.525 and up range, the cpu is locked in place. No amount of bios editing is going to fix that. And when going to 5 ghz and higher, the voltage needed to make runs gets to staggering new heights. And at each voltage curve there becomes an  invisible temp wall.

I'll use this link as an example.

See how @Papusan is pretty much the top of all air benched cpu's? Or at least of the recorded ones.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/wprime_-_1024m/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_4012&start=-9&cores=4#rankBy=teams#start=20#interval=20

This result is excellent news for all mobile enthusiast because he is in fact at the top of all air benched 6700k's. Who cares if you can clock 5.3 ghz if you get beat by everyone running 4.8 ghz. If you look down that list you will see even one guy on [email protected] ghz in like 71st place. His run was not optimal...

 

By going by this as an example: 5 ghz needs more than 1.5V to be stable. Even if we unlock the current limit throttling, you still can't get past the most important part. The real core voltage. And that my friend is hard coded somewhere on the motherboard. And has been for quite some time in laptops i'm afraid. Along with the other stuff you can't see in the bios files or the changes being made that don't stick because...of the stuff you can't see in the unlocked bios file.

 

Now the 1080/1070/1060.

Pascal is based off of temps No doubt about it. I was only able to push 2.055 on air cooler, but once I went to water i was able to push 2.150 ghz stable (My desktop 1080's with flashed vbios from another card. Exact same clocks). at the exact same voltage. 1.093V max I haven't really sat down to see how high we are on the 1080N, but I think it's somewhere near [email protected] ghz core. 

 

Here is where we are standing at the moment with regards to gpu and cpu

Tried setting voltage to 1.535V and the highest it will go is 1.504V

PJj0N16.png

Memory overclock

2j1Xolx.png

No memory over clock

8eXzGI3.png

 

Hope this all makes a bit more sense. :)

Edited by johnksss
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15 hours ago, haiwepa said:

@ Mr Fox:

i can get your point of view, but for me, to go from 970m to 1070, HELL YEAHH this would be a fucking nice upgrade, with plenty of bonus points and and extra 10cl vodka with the orange juice!

Yeah, I was clowing around with you. That is a big jump from 970M. Pay me no mind. I'm just salty about getting screwed on upgrades and having to sell a brand new dead-end monsterbook that should have lasted me at least 3 years worth of GPU upgrades. It went from awesome to worthless with the release of Pascal and I'm none too happy about that, but it's over now. It's gone and I don't have to care any more.

15 hours ago, johnksss said:

All I can say at this point is...good luck with that.

 

Edit. Had to run out for a bit.

 

So I will explain this part everyone seems to be missing.

The part we need to change to be able to compete against desktop cpus in our class is the voltage. Without being able to go in the 1.525 and up range, the cpu is locked in place. No amount of bios editing is going to fix that. And when going to 5 ghz and higher, the voltage needed to make runs gets to staggering new heights. And at each voltage curve there becomes an  invisible temp wall.

I'll use this link as an example.

See how @Papusan is pretty much the top of all air benched cpu's? Or at least of the recorded ones.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/wprime_-_1024m/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_4012&start=-9&cores=4#rankBy=teams#start=20#interval=20

This result is excellent news for all mobile enthusiast because he is in fact at the top of all air benched 6700k's. Who cares if you can clock 5.3 ghz if you get beat by everyone running 4.8 ghz. If you look down that list you will see even one guy on [email protected] ghz in like 71st place. His run was not optimal...

 

By going by this as an example: 5 ghz needs more than 1.5V to be stable. Even if we unlock the current limit throttling, you still can't get past the most important part. The real core voltage. And that my friend is hard coded somewhere on the motherboard. And has been for quite some time in laptops i'm afraid. Along with the other stuff you can't see in the bios files or the changes being made that don't stick because...of the stuff you can't see in the unlocked bios file.

 

Now the 1080/1070/1060.

Pascal is based off of temps No doubt about it. I was only able to push 2.055 on air cooler, but once I went to water i was able to push 2.150 ghz stable (My desktop 1080's with flashed vbios from another card. Exact same clocks). at the exact same voltage. 1.093V max I haven't really sat down to see how high we are on the 1080N, but I think it's somewhere near [email protected] ghz core. 

 

Here is where we are standing at the moment with regards to gpu and cpu

Tried setting voltage to 1.535V and the highest it will go is 1.504V

PJj0N16.png

Memory overclock

2j1Xolx.png

No memory over clock

8eXzGI3.png

 

Hope this all makes a bit more sense. :)

Yeah, that does make sense. I should have pushed the voltage higher on the CPU and never did. Was a constant battle trying to balance things to avoid the silly current limit throttling nonsense and I should have just maxed it out and see what would happen. Thanks for the detail... good stuff.

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@Mr. Fox You already know how I operate. First try to see how high it can go. We are not your normal reviewers and who wants to wait 2 months to figure out what the machine is suppose to do if we don't really have to. I always say. :D I didn't really want to go to in depth with things because I haven't decided on if i'm even going to keep it yet.

 

That current is going to stop you that's for sure, but going into 5 ghz range you need higher than 1.5V to bench. You might be able to get away with cpu validations sitting on 4C/8T, but trying to bench vantage. Not going to happen. You pass vantage cpu bench, you can bench almost anything at that clock and voltage. Wprime32 requires less voltage, but also vantage is known for killing cpus and or motherboards with no over voltage protections.....

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3 hours ago, johnksss said:

@Mr. Fox You already know how I operate. First try to see how high it can go. We are not your normal reviewers and who wants to wait 2 months to figure out what the machine is suppose to do if we don't really have to. I always say. :D I didn't really want to go to in depth with things because I haven't decided on if i'm even going to keep it yet.

 

That current is going to stop you that's for sure, but going into 5 ghz range you need higher than 1.5V to bench. You might be able to get away with cpu validations sitting on 4C/8T, but trying to bench vantage. Not going to happen. You pass vantage cpu bench, you can bench almost anything at that clock and voltage. Wprime32 requires less voltage, but also vantage is known for killing cpus and or motherboards with no over voltage protections.....

If the most powerful current generation laptop on the face of the earth isn't good enough to make the decision to keep it an easy one, then maybe I should just forget about the whole mess.

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27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

If the most powerful current generation laptop on the face of the earth isn't good enough to make the decision to keep it an easy one, then maybe I should just forget about the whole mess.

I was thinking of resale value. Most will want G-sync gpus and a G-sync display. This is none of the above, so that means I would have to wait till they show up and then reorder. :)

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Yes, but that's for guys like us....The other 98 percent of the people just want something better than what they have. [emoji4]

And a 1070N is better than a 980N. Uses less watts and give more performance for less money on an upgrade. Provided one can get one to work in a machine other than what it was designed for. [emoji3]

And anyone coming from a single 980M or lower...A 1070N is an upgrade.



I'm just looking at a way to make mine bearable while saving up for a new rig. Limited funds and an expensive hobby...

Even if I sold my rig now, I wouldn't quite have enough for a proper DM2, meaning either increasing the value and hoping it doesn't lessen too much by the time I sell it/can afford what I want.

Does "bonus points" translate into 3DMark points and other performance metrics that match 1080?

If not, you're merely doing your best to squeeze some lemonade from the box of lemons when you really wanted a glass of orange juice.

Personally, I have a hard time with the idea of aspiring to second tier performance as a solution. It's an upgrade, but a disappointment at the same time because it will never be the best option.



I meant doing what you can for your mobile ZM, not the being chapped about the DM, which is BS. With the size of the full 980, unless you got the 180W with mods our made your own (*hat tip to Khenglish*), you knew what your P750ZM was when you got it. I had less foresight as an early adopter (needed a new laptop for the bar exam, so got this at the time as the MB on my last machine burnt out). I don't mind lemonades, but if I had this machine and a P870, I wouldn't bench the ZM as much because I wouldn't get the scores I want... Until I can build the desktop I want or get the laptop with upgradable assurances, I figure do what I can...

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9 hours ago, johnksss said:

I was thinking of resale value. Most will want G-sync gpus and a G-sync display. This is none of the above, so that means I would have to wait till they show up and then reorder. :)

Yeah, I know a lot of people are really sold on G-sync. I really don't understand why. To me it is an absolutely worthless gimmick that I have never realized any benefit from. It seemed worthless to me on the Sky X9 and it was included on the machine I just sold at no extra charge. I would never wait for it to become available as part of my purchasing decision,and I certainly would not entertain the idea of paying extra to have it because it did nothing whatsoever at any point to enhance my experience. NVIDIA is the master of gimmicks.

 

The more I think about this, the more I am inclined to believe option A or B makes far too much sense for me to seriously entertain option C. Plus option C is the least affordable of the three.

The more I think about this, and how much pure joy I get from overclocked number-chasing, the more I am inclined to believe option A or B makes far too much sense for me to seriously entertain option C. Plus, option C is the least affordable of the three. Since playing games is a distant second place behind the pleasure I derive from benching, those numbers are very hard to ignore. And, while we are closer than ever to closing the gap between desktop and laptop, that really only applies to the P870DM3. Even so, the gap is still massive and it is VERY, VERY far from being true for any machine less than a P870DM3... which is basically everything. The P870DM3 totally eclipses everything else available anywhere in a notebook.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/11426953/3dm11/11495374/3dm11/11528240

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9846237/fs/9873275/fs/9954310#


 

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32 minutes ago, ajc9988 said:

I meant doing what you can for your mobile ZM, not the being chapped about the DM, which is BS. With the size of the full 980, unless you got the 180W with mods our made your own (*hat tip to Khenglish*), you knew what your P750ZM was when you got it. I had less foresight as an early adopter (needed a new laptop for the bar exam, so got this at the time as the MB on my last machine burnt out). I don't mind lemonades, but if I had this machine and a P870, I wouldn't bench the ZM as much because I wouldn't get the scores I want... Until I can build the desktop I want or get the laptop with upgradable assurances, I figure do what I can...
 

 

Yes, the only thing I do not like about the P750ZM is the crappy cooling system. Other than that unpleasant surprise it is everything I expected it to be and I am happy with it. It was inexpensive, nice looking and something I could stuff into the same bag as my work laptop for a business trip without having to carry a suitcase and two computer bags on every trip. I never intended for it to be my main rig. It was something cheap, little, but still something I could tweak and enjoy as a side benefit unlike the pathetic BGA shitbooks it competes with. It stomps their brains out, literally.

 

As far as playing games is concerned, the tiny little P750ZM sitting here in my lap with a single 980M delivers 100% on my expectations. I don't care about 4K gaming, I have zero interest in VR gaming, and at 1080p I don't really see any point in spending any money on a GPU upgrade for something to play video games. There is nothing to be gained by it from my perspective.

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The problem with these non-Gsync machines is the GPU itself also comes as 'non-Gsync'. Come upgrade time there's not going to be too many people wanting it.

 

As far as using Gsync goes for gaming I could care less. It's the biggest load of hype I've yet experienced. Visually i looked smoother but it didn't feel smoother.

 

Question for @Prema . Can a gsync display work in SLI if only 1 card is Gsync? (I think i know the answer.)

 

 

 


3Q85XFN.jpg
 

 

Edited by TBoneSan
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23 minutes ago, TBoneSan said:

The problem with these non-Gsync machines is the GPU itself also comes as 'non-Gsync'. Come upgrade time there's not going to be too many people wanting it.

 

Question for @Prema . Can a gsync display work in SLI if only 1 card is Gsync? (I think i know the answer) .

 

lFOLmmQ.jpg

 

And, tell me that was an accident, LOL. Maybe I'm just suspicious of everything now because of what happened with them killing GPU upgrades, but I think that was planned as well. If all Clevo is waiting for is NVIDIA to add the screen to their G-STINK white list (like they did with 4K on the P870DM-G) there is no excuse for them shipping laptops with non-G video cards. If it's really that much of a big deal to a lot of people it should be standard spec and once NVIDIA gets around to it G-SYNC appears magically with a GeForce driver update for every machine with the right parts already present. Holding back the GPUs while waiting for NVIDIA and expecting idiots to drop $1200 a piece for replacement GPUs with a special resistor that costs probably less than a nickle  just to have G-STINK enabled is a blatant scam.

 

You nailed it with the Vaseline, Brother @TBoneSan - premeditated fraud.

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7 hours ago, johnksss said:

All I can say at this point is...good luck with that.

 

Edit. Had to run out for a bit.

 

So I will explain this part everyone seems to be missing.

The part we need to change to be able to compete against desktop cpus in our class is the voltage. Without being able to go in the 1.525 and up range, the cpu is locked in place. No amount of bios editing is going to fix that. And when going to 5 ghz and higher, the voltage needed to make runs gets to staggering new heights. And at each voltage curve there becomes an  invisible temp wall.

I'll use this link as an example.

See how @Papusan is pretty much the top of all air benched cpu's? Or at least of the recorded ones.

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/wprime_-_1024m/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_4012&start=-9&cores=4#rankBy=teams#start=20#interval=20

This result is excellent news for all mobile enthusiast because he is in fact at the top of all air benched 6700k's. Who cares if you can clock 5.3 ghz if you get beat by everyone running 4.8 ghz. If you look down that list you will see even one guy on [email protected] ghz in like 71st place. His run was not optimal...

 

By going by this as an example: 5 ghz needs more than 1.5V to be stable. Even if we unlock the current limit throttling, you still can't get past the most important part. The real core voltage. And that my friend is hard coded somewhere on the motherboard. And has been for quite some time in laptops i'm afraid. Along with the other stuff you can't see in the bios files or the changes being made that don't stick because...of the stuff you can't see in the unlocked bios file.

:)

Yeah. This is just a wimpy wprime 32M bench. But it's fun to be among the other desktops with processor's at @5.0GHz and better cooling, but with the processor clocked 4.9GHz in a laptop

:Banane16:http://hwbot.org/submission/3285647_papusan_wprime___32m_core_i7_6700k_4sec_148ms

 

4.9 GHz.PNG

 

 

 

Edited by Papusan
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As far as play games is concerned, the tiny little P750ZM sitting here in my lap with a single 980M delivers 100% on my expectations. I don't care about 4K gaming, I have zero interest in VR gaming, and at 1080p I don't really see any point in spending any money for something to play video games. There is nothing to be gained by it from my perspective.


I hook my laptop up to my 4K 50" tv for some games, giving me a reason to want the 1070 to get me by... If I only played internal display out only 1080, I'd definitely agree. But my wait could be as long as next summer/fall for Skylake-X, so the bit to upgrade now doesn't seem that bad a value for the interim... Broadwell-E runs its course in a year. The new socket for the X processors will run through cannonlake, so a good 3 years about if adopted immediately. That's about the best you can ask unless Zen is somehow magic since their socket is the same for their entire lineup moving forward...

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1 minute ago, TBoneSan said:

@Mr. Fox as they say, "There's no such thing as a coincidence". They really did a bang up job.

 

I'm wondering if Clevo have enough balls keep MXM compatibility from here on..

Good question, bro. All I know is that I sure as hell don't want to find out the hard way (again) if they don't. Surprises suck... predictability is something I value, and I've never been much for gambling.

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Good question, bro. All I know is that I sure as hell don't want to find out the hard way (again) if they don't. Surprises suck... predictability is something I value, and I've never been much for gambling.

 

I think I'm making a jump to a single 1080 machine - I'm bloody spent to do so that's it till I move back home.  I guess if they screw me out of an upgrade again SLI is still on the table.

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11 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Good question, bro. All I know is that I sure as hell don't want to find out the hard way (again) if they don't. Surprises suck... predictability is something I value, and I've never been much for gambling.

Only 100% guarantee from Clevo is good enough. I do not trust retailers. screwed one time is more than enough. I will use this BGA-KIller to next year probably. I don't want buy hardware now. Everything is too unreliable now. Not desktops or laptops.

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