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CLEVO@COMPUTEX 2016


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On 6/4/2016 at 10:52 AM, Prema said:

 

The 120Hz FHD should work just fine (given the DM2 cable can fit)  in current DM models (minus g-sync)...the higher res will exceed the current DM model eDP bandwidth...  

 

 

They would like to see people Better Get Another one each year than upgrade their current model...

Good to know higher refresh rate panels are on the way.  If  the higher-res  panels (3K, 4K) exceed DM bandwidth that sucks unfortunately.  I'd love to be able to upgrade the display on my P870DM  from 4K @ 60Hz  to 120Hz (using it with SVP among other high FPS video playback software would be incredulous)! :D  Perhaps there's a wy to clock it down to jut 100Hz or 90Hz so that it could function?  I'd be perfectly fine with just those refresh rates.  I really love my P870DM and don't want to exchange it anytime soon since it seems pascal will indeed be compatible at this point.

 

I also wonder when these new machines and mobile pascal will be available.  My guess would be August-September (pushing into October as well if the pattern is anything like yesteryear) time-frame. :)  According to this article :http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-and-1080-coming-to-gaming-notebooks/  we could very-well be receiving the full desktop edtiion 1080 rather than just  1080m initially sooner than initially speculated.  Hopefully the 1080 desktop edition takes a cue from current standard MXM cards and can be done in SLI as opposed to the current 980 desktop edition.

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18 minutes ago, Akaraah said:

I also wonder when these new machines and mobile pascal will be available.  My guess would be August-September (pushing into October as well if the pattern is anything like yesteryear) time-frame. :)  According to this article :http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-and-1080-coming-to-gaming-notebooks/  we could very-well be receiving the full desktop edtiion 1080 rather than just  1080m initially sooner than initially speculated.  Hopefully the 1080 desktop edition takes a cue from current standard MXM cards and can be done in SLI as opposed to the current 980 desktop edition.

I hope so, too. I love the 200W 980 beast GPU, but it sucks that it doesn't support SLI. After so many years of having dual-GPU laptops, it feels like something is missing only having one GPU. It's very powerful and an amazing product, but there is no such thing as too much horsepower. I'm finally getting used to the idea, but it has been hard to warm up to the concept to playing with only half of a deck of cards (1 versus 2 GPUs) when I know there is twice as much fun to be had with SLI. I was really sad that I had to send the 180W 980 SLI setup back to Eurocom. That was absolutely wicked.

 

Pascal 1080 should require less power, so that's even more of a reason that it would be stupid if it doesn't support SLI.

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On 6/1/2016 at 8:53 AM, Brian said:

Would love to get my hands on a pascal equipped one for testing. I'm not sold on vr yet.

Agreed on pascal. Perhaps we'll get an awesome SLI option!:D

Also, I'll personally be picking up my HTC Vive Monday or Tuesday so if you want I could always provide first-impressions.  What I really want to test is how well 3D blu-rays function especially with 1st gen VR headsets.  I bought VR desktop off of steam so I'll finally be able to test it this week.

 

23 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I hope so, too. I love the 200W 980 beast GPU, but it sucks that it doesn't support SLI. After so many years of having dual-GPU laptops, it feels like something is missing only having one GPU. It's very powerful and an amazing product, but there is no such thing as too much horsepower. I'm finally getting used to the idea, but it has been hard to warm up to the concept to playing with only half of a deck of cards (1 versus 2 GPUs) when I know there is twice as much fun to be had with SLI. I was really sad that I had to send the 180W 980 SLI setup back to Eurocom. That was absolutely wicked.

 

Pascal 1080 should require less power, so that's even more of a reason that it would be stupid if it doesn't support SLI.

Definitely agreed here.  I initially wanted to go for the 980 Desktop edition but like the benefits of SLI (one of which being super-sampling SLI x16 based anti-aliasing for games that aren't over-the-top demanding but still visually impressive).  I felt only a 20% to 30% advantage over a single 980m wasn't quite worth it especially looking into the likelihood of selling the desktop card versus dual 980ms given only certain premium laptops can actually house it.   AND...I knew the next gen would likely be only a year off at max from my purchasing of the P870DM.  If the desktop-laptop edition 1080 gets overall lower TDP/wattage (say, 120w as opposed to the actual desktop card 180w) then I'd say a strong possibility for SLI.  We'll just have to follow the money until then. :D

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1 hour ago, Akaraah said:

I also wonder when these new machines and mobile pascal will be available.  My guess would be August-September (pushing into October as well if the pattern is anything like yesteryear) time-frame. :)  According to this article :http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-and-1080-coming-to-gaming-notebooks/  we could very-well be receiving the full desktop edtiion 1080 rather than just  1080m initially sooner than initially speculated.  Hopefully the 1080 desktop edition takes a cue from current standard MXM cards and can be done in SLI as opposed to the current 980 desktop edition.

 

Those reports are only halved backed, don't take them unfiltered.

It's like Intel's announcement that 'for the first time ever' we get unlocked k-series chips in Notebooks, while we had MX, XM etc for many years before and all they did was changing the name. ;)

 

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I also noticed that there's no "P870DM2" included among those upcoming pascal photos...  Perhaps @EVOC just hasn't provided photos yet or none were on ground?  In any-case, should I take it as a good sign that given the upgrade-ability of  the P870DM that there's no revamp in the works at the moment?  Given it  just launched in like December 2015 through February depending on the OEM, it'd make sense that  no updated models would be show-cased since it is the current top-end model and already has thunderbolt type C support.  Given how much I like the machine I'd love to just be able to upgrade to mobile/desktop pascal, and swap in a high res, higher refresh-rate panel and remain having the best laptop money can currently buy. :D

 

@Prema is there anyway you can confirm if there's a "P870DM2" (which I hope is not quite a thing yet, lol)?

 

1070/1080 mobile Pascal? 

 

NVIDIA-Mobile-Pascal-Specs.jpg

 

Clevo-P775DM2-G-Specifications.jpg

 

Full URL here: http://videocardz.com/60935/geforce-gtx-1070-in-notebooks-nvidia-pg611-board-spotted-gp102-400-gpu-confirmed

 

Neat stuff coming out of Computex. :D  I just wish under "Dedicated video memory" we could see whether it's GDDR5 or GDDR5X. :P

 

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54 minutes ago, Akaraah said:

I also noticed that there's no "P870DM2" included among those upcoming pascal photos...  Perhaps @EVOC just hasn't provided photos yet or none were on ground?  In any-case, should I take it as a good sign that given the upgrade-ability of  the P870DM that there's no revamp in the works at the moment?  Given it  just launched in like December 2015 through February depending on the OEM, it'd make sense that  no updated models would be show-cased since it is the current top-end model and already has thunderbolt type C support.  Given how much I like the machine I'd love to just be able to upgrade to mobile/desktop pascal, and swap in a high res, higher refresh-rate panel and remain having the best laptop money can currently buy. :D

 

@Prema is there anyway you can confirm if there's a "P870DM2" (which I hope is not quite a thing yet, lol)?

That would be my guess, but only speculation... no reason to revamp it if 1080/1080 SLI  is a plug-and-play upgrade. Nothing is missing and it doesn't need to be revamped. With the addition of 120Hz FHD it will be 'all that' with an order of fries... ready to rock and roll.

 

The P775DM is a nice looking machine, but the lack of a dual GPU option and the unified heat sink design ruins it for me; especially the unified heat sink. I used to think it was a good idea, but now that I have one I am not a fan of unified heat sinks. If they are going to use that kind of design it needs to be built with aerospace precision with something like 0.25mm production variance and nobody builds laptops with that kind of precision. 

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Is there going to be any return of powering off the dGPU? For me having 2h of battery life is unacceptable. I would really like to see a mux in Clevo systems to get either full performance, or full battery life. MSI does this but they only sell big 17" laptops anymore.

 

@Mr. Fox Yes unified heatsinks is definitely bad. It causes too much trouble to get good die contact on both dies. Also if your GPU is running hot your CPU is guaranteed to be throttling as CPUs have a much larger die to heatsink temperature difference than GPUs. In theory unified heatsinks are good, but in practice not.

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@Akaraah

 

I can't confirm or deny anything not shown by Clevo. They already displayed more than they intended because of others stretching their NDAs...

 

@Khenglish

 

From the Performance Series only the P6 models continue to make use of the Intel GPU (MS-Hybrid switching as well as pure dGPU modes via MUX) and have 4-5h of battery life in the former mode.

The P7 have 2-3h...

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10 minutes ago, Khenglish said:

Is there going to be any return of powering off the dGPU? For me having 2h of battery life is unacceptable. I would really like to see a mux in Clevo systems to get either full performance, or full battery life. MSI does this but they only sell big 17" laptops anymore.

 

@Mr. Fox Yes unified heatsinks is definitely bad. It causes too much trouble to get good die contact on both dies. Also if your GPU is running hot your CPU is guaranteed to be throttling as CPUs have a much larger die to heatsink temperature difference than GPUs. In theory unified heatsinks are good, but in practice not.

If you actually need it, being able to switch to Intel HD Graphics and power off the discrete GPUs is a nice feature. I was able to stretch up to 6 hours on the M18xR2 if I turned off everything non-essential. It was more of a novelty for me because battery life has never been something that I have cared about. As long as the battery lasts long enough to move from outlet A to outlet B in another location, that's all I need. Even when traveling, I almost always had access to AC power. The mux switch is the only decent option for this. Optimus sucks. Having the mux switch definitely complicates things. It's just one more thing that can malfunction, but for those that really need that it is truly special.

 

With the 980 SLI installed in the P870DM it would idle about 90 to 120 seconds on battery before powering itself off. It was just too much power draw for such a small battery. I had to hurry up to move from point A to point B, but it was definitely worth it for the horsepower.

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On 6/5/2016 at 10:28 PM, Akaraah said:

1070/1080 mobile Pascal? 

...

Neat stuff coming out of Computex. :D  I just wish under "Dedicated video memory" we could see whether it's GDDR5 or GDDR5X. :P

 

 

That card there is GDDR5...

 

On 6/5/2016 at 9:25 PM, Akaraah said:

Agreed on pascal. Perhaps we'll get an awesome SLI option!:D

Also, I'll personally be picking up my HTC Vive Monday or Tuesday so if you want I could always provide first-impressions.  What I really want to test is how well 3D blu-rays function especially with 1st gen VR headsets.  I bought VR desktop off of steam so I'll finally be able to test it this week.

 

My HTC Vive is sitting at a friends place since over a month...won't see it until July. :(

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12 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

With the 980 SLI installed in the P870DM it would idle about 90 to 120 seconds on battery before powering itself off. It was just too much power draw for such a small battery. I had to hurry up to move from point A to point B, but it was definitely worth it for the horsepower.

Honestly, that's probably the reason it never made it to market. I understand that most of the time I won't use battery for my machine, but 1.5 to 2 minutes is just nowhere near long enough for any machine called a "laptop". As for why it would shut off, I cannot understand. The GPUs should be able to downclock and the CPU should also be able to downclock on battery, and that shouldn't trigger an instant shutdown. I've spent more than a couple minutes on battery while gaming and recording without having my PC shut down, so I don't see why the P870DM 980 SLI version would, unless the whole system remains fully clocked up.

 

Blah. We need better battery tech. For certain.

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

The P775DM is a nice looking machine, but the lack of a dual GPU option and the unified heat sink design ruins it for me; especially the unified heat sink. I used to think it was a good idea, but now that I have one I am not a fan of unified heat sinks. If they are going to use that kind of design it needs to be built with aerospace precision with something like 0.25mm production variance and nobody builds laptops with that kind of precision. 

My issue with the P775DM is the lack of USB ports. It has four in total; three USB 3.0 and one USB 3.1, and since none of my devices use USB 3.1, it means I have a laptop with 3 USB ports. Headset + Mouse + Controller and I can't plug in a mic or dedicated webcam? No. That's just not so good. I much quicker recommend the P870DM over the P775DM1 if peoples' purpose is for buying a 980, and if their purpose is a 980M, then the P770DM gets my recommendation. I honestly feel the P775DM1 just... isn't worth it for that design layout reason alone. Though I guess it's cheaper than the P870DM... oh well.

15 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Pascal 1080 should require less power, so that's even more of a reason that it would be stupid if it doesn't support SLI.

GM204 (980) is 165W in desktop land (200W on mobile is because they KNOW if they actually put a 165W limit on the card and prevented power & temp targets from being increased the cards could never be called overclockable; far less seeing them hold base clocks in scenarios higher than 1080p for gaming) and GP104 (1080) is 180W in desktop land, and rather easily hits that power target limit, even at stock configurations. Believe me, if a mobile 1080 ever appears, it will draw more power than Maxwell.

On 6/4/2016 at 2:54 PM, Mr. Fox said:

Voting with the wallet is definitely the way to go. The OEMs will have no motivation to sell turdbooks with Intel and NVIDIA BGA filth if enough people wise up and refuse to spend money on feces. The only way we're going to fix stupid is by killing it (making it unprofitable).  I know they make less money when people can upgrade, but let's face it... making less money selling machines that are upgradable is a whole lot better than not being able to sell anything when it's not. The smart businesses, like Eurocom and HIDevolution, know this and cater to upgraders by making the parts they need readily available and advertising their support for upgraders.

This is the huge issue though. Even if the parts (in upgrades in configuration websites) cost the same, the socketed machines are SO much more expensive. Like, it's a really tough sell to get a user with say... a $2000 USD limit who wants to buy a gaming machine and needs to buy in 2 weeks (won't be able to increase budget) to buy a socketed machine with a 970M instead of a 980M.

 

A P650RG with a 6820HK, 16GB (2x8GB) 2400MHz CL14 RAM, 980M 8GB with a 250GB 850 EVO M.2 and 1TB HGST Travelstar HDD with no OS and a 2 year warranty is $2014.45 USD at Mythlogic. BGA filth, as you'd say.

A P750DM with a 6700K, 16GB (2x8GB) 2400MHz CL14 RAM, 970M 6GB with a 250GB 850 EVO M.2 and 1TB HGST Travelstar HDD with no OS and a 2 year warranty is $1979.15 USD at Mythlogic. If I add the 330W adapter over the 230W adapter, it's $2044.14 USD, for a machine that for all intents and purposes, will game worse than the P650RG.

 

And then if you factor in the fact that the 6700K is ~$340 USD and the 6820HK is $378, and that the 980M is a ~$245+ USD cost over the 970M... what do I say? I still like to push for the idea of sockets, but the markups are huge. I understand the board is different and the cooling system and heatsinks are better, but is it $300 USD better? And is every consumer willing to eat that cost dry? It's the same issue like I was explaining over on NBR with the screen upgrade. It's literally a near 300% markup to get the 4K screen for the P870DM from vendors that sell it over buying it and installing yourself. You could even break a screen and buy a replacement and STILL save $$ on the upgrade.

 

And then, that's buying it from mythlogic, who I chose for the comparison as they're a Prema Partner. If I were to choose say... Sager, you could even get more (physical) stuff out of his budget in the P650RG machine, but I still won't be able to hit the 980M without sacrificing maybe the SSD or something on the P750DM. For people who don't overclock and are fine with stock and whatever, what's the point? I understand I'm currently acting in the vein of "why should people buy the socketed models anyway?" but that's exactly how the general public sees things. They're pushing HARD and price is a big issue. And even the other machines that have a premium attached to them like the Aorus models, even if they're hot, throttle-prone, bleh excuses of laptops, their keyboards and finishes and inborne software (no clevo hotkey crap) are attractive to the general consumer, though it's a bit easier to get people with larger budgets to switch. *sigh* I don't even know anymore. Blah. I wish I could get everyone to "just switch" like it was so easy and everyone could afford it.

On 6/4/2016 at 0:53 PM, Prema said:

Just wish they would bring 3D back along with them.

I wish people would start making 3D compatible games again. Even VR-ready games like Elite: Dangerous require literal hacking of the game to get it to actually work with 3D. I haven't dusted off my glasses in a long time... there's just nothing current to play with them. I played through Mass Effect 1 and Black Ops 1 and Black Ops 2 in 3D and some of BF3, but then... I just had nothing else. Every game coming out "not recommended" "fair" etc. Even "good" is so rare. And the games that do come out with decent 3D capabilities often run like blah and halving my framerate is just... not so bueno when I have 780Ms. 

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Lets hope....If they decide to make any more sli notebooks that they do not require a code to unlock sli. Like they are doing with the desktop variant. (Using more than 2 cards(1080/1070) in sli requires a code now)

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2 hours ago, johnksss said:

Lets hope....If they decide to make any more sli notebooks that they do not require a code to unlock sli. Like they are doing with the desktop variant. (Using more than 2 cards(1080/1070) in sli requires a code now)

Really, they require that on desktops with more than 2x SLI? What kind of code? So, does this mean the money-grabbing crooks at NGREEDIA are going to license SLI technology now also, or is the code free?

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Really, they require that on desktops with more than 2x SLI? What kind of code? So, does this mean the money-grabbing crooks at NGREEDIA are going to license SLI technology now also, or is the code free?

No. What it means is Nvidia is no longer supporting sli because most game makers don't want to. And since it's not a direct 100 percent increase in using 2 cards they feel it's becoming a waste of time, but since there are still enthusiast that exist. They decided to not fully drop it all together. Thus the Nvidia Enthusiast Key website. Which of course is not up and running yet. 

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3 hours ago, johnksss said:

Lets hope....If they decide to make any more sli notebooks that they do not require a code to unlock sli. Like they are doing with the desktop variant. (Using more than 2 cards(1080/1070) in sli requires a code now)

1 hour ago, johnksss said:
1 hour ago, johnksss said:

No. What it means is Nvidia is no longer supporting sli because most game makers don't want to. And since it's not a direct 100 percent increase in using 2 cards they feel it's becoming a waste of time, but since there are still enthusiast that exist. They decided to not fully drop it all together. Thus the Nvidia Enthusiast Key website. Which of course is not up and running yet. 

 

Bummer. There's nothing quite so 'special' as being limited by the lowest common denominators in the gamer-boy world. 

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4 hours ago, johnksss said:

Lets hope....If they decide to make any more sli notebooks that they do not require a code to unlock sli. Like they are doing with the desktop variant. (Using more than 2 cards(1080/1070) in sli requires a code now)

 

I don't think it should affect notebooks at all since they don't use more than 2 GPUs. But in general SLI is dying out and has been for sometime. If you look at some of the latest games and engines they simply do not have native SLI support and it is up to the developer to implement it (e.g. good luck unless its AAA title). It is part of the reason I'm moving on from Titan X SLI to a single card. 

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3 hours ago, johnksss said:

No. What it means is Nvidia is no longer supporting sli because most game makers don't want to. And since it's not a direct 100 percent increase in using 2 cards they feel it's becoming a waste of time, but since there are still enthusiast that exist. They decided to not fully drop it all together. Thus the Nvidia Enthusiast Key website. Which of course is not up and running yet. 

It's not only that, but game engines are moving to tech that's dependent on the last frame's data. There's not enough bandwidth between the cards. Forcing two-way SLI on Unreal Engine 4, for example, 1440p and above generally gives NEGATIVE scaling unless you're using PCI/e 3.0 x16/x16 configurations for the cards. And at 4K that might not even be enough, honestly. It's the reason for the high bandwidth bridge (even though what they should have done was use the XDMA-style design like AMD did since Hawaii; they had enough time... that launched before Maxwell, far less Pascal). There aren't enough PCI/e lanes for beyond 2-way SLI, and with all the hype they touted about DX12 and multi-GPU, they had to figure out some way to make it happen. Even AMD is being stupid and showing CrossfireX benches to beat the 1080... like that'll work in 70% of the games these days. They don't even have an equivalent to nVidia Profile Inspector to force compatibility bits and profiles on games, further limiting their already limited multi-GPU profile pool.

 

I think it's really stupid, honestly. The tech doesn't even look all that amazing all things considered; no need to have it be inter-frame dependent.

 

And another thing they need to fix is the ridiculous CPU usage on many titles. For the last year and a half games have basically been cannibalizing CPU usage like it's going to run out in 5 minutes. Especially stupid when half of them run at 60fps on those weaksauce consoles whose CPUs barely match up to an i3.

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I think they are going to end up shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of nonsense along with the BGA filth. If PC gaming is getting this screwed up and dumbed down just to accommodate the lowest common denominators and the game devs that don't want to be bothered with extra effort, then I have to wonder why it makes sense to even bother purchasing expensive PC hardware for gaming if you get the same peanut butter and jelly experience as you would from a console... just spend $500-600 for a pile of trash console and join the belly-button gamer crowd... or find something better to do with your spare time. If it's not special on PC any more, then it's not special. Being an overclocking enthusiast that likes to use his hobby/skill in the gaming arena needs to be fun, not an expensive pain in the ass with an end result that amounts to an ordinary experience with crappy hardware and a leveled playing field. Maybe the idea is that everyone will get a trophy for participation and nobody will have to feel bad for owning a crippled turdbook, LOL.

 

On top of all that, I recently spent wasted several hours scouring Steam, Origin, Ubisoft, GOG looking for something awesome and honestly... almost all of what is produced now is indie garbage that looks like a stupid arcade game from 10+ years ago, or something else that looks equally bland and boring. It's hard to even identify the good stuff because of all of the digital litter that gets in the way. There are few new titles that interest me at all. Most of the junk reminds of the cheap wussified games I see in the smartphone 'stores' and that's really pathetic.

 

 

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I would not recommend SLI for anyone considering buying a new notebook or building a desktop in the near future. Both AMD and NVIDIA are moving away from mgpu support and so are the lazy software developers who only want to create cross-platform titles and not bother with PC optimization. You get rare titles liked GTA V which make somewhat an effort to add in some extras for PC but overall it's just a straight port with a few extras like GameWorks if NVIDIA tosses them a bone. AMD doesn't have the budget to be devoting engineers to get game devs to add extras to PC games so this locks all of us into NVIDIA's GameWorks and depending on who you ask, that is either a good or bad thing. 

 

With consoles now moving to a more frequent upgrade cycle, I think we'll hopefully see a lot of fragmentation there and butt hurt with the guys buying the latest consoles (e.g. PS4 Neo) and not being able to get extra effects and having to deal w/the lowest common denominator. Maybe that will drive those guys to finally build a decent PC. 

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16 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think they are going to end up shooting themselves in the foot with this kind of nonsense along with the BGA filth. If PC gaming is getting this screwed up and dumbed down just to accommodate the lowest common denominators and the game devs that don't want to be bothered with extra effort, then I have to wonder why it makes sense to even bother purchasing expensive PC hardware for gaming if you get the same peanut butter and jelly experience as you would from a console... just spend $500-600 for a pile of trash console and join the belly-button gamer crowd... or find something better to do with your spare time. If it's not special on PC any more, then it's not special. Being an overclocking enthusiast that likes to use his hobby/skill in the gaming arena needs to be fun, not an expensive pain in the ass with an end result that amounts to an ordinary experience with crappy hardware and a leveled playing field. Maybe the idea is that everyone will get a trophy for participation and nobody will have to feel bad for owning a crippled turdbook, LOL.

 

On top of all that, I recently spent wasted several hours scouring Steam, Origin, Ubisoft, GOG looking for something awesome and honestly... almost all of what is produced now is indie garbage that looks like a stupid arcade game from 10+ years ago, or something else that looks equally bland and boring. It's hard to even identify the good stuff because of all of the digital litter that gets in the way. There are few new titles that interest me at all. Most of the junk reminds of the cheap wussified games I see in the smartphone 'stores' and that's really pathetic.

 

 

This is the entire point you'd think... but people still lap it up. The number of people who'll ridicule you for not having a top end current-gen system or just toss stronger GPUs at games until they run well is astounding. Even when my system was top of the line I complained about optimization when it was necessary... nobody else seems to care. And yes, people don't really care for the PC versions. And if they say they do, the games are often extremely unoptimized and buggy still, and have update timelines that mirror the consoles. Because when it comes to AAA titles, consoles are their bread and butter. Even The Witcher 3 had to have console considerations made. PC gaming is often more hassle than fun lately. Then there's the majority of people that 1-click optimize and run the game and leave everything default like a console player. Like ok. If that's what you want, sure, but then don't join discussions about the games and whatnot if 45fps on "medium" with your $550 GPU that's barely a year old is acceptable.

 

This is the other thing. Those indie games that don't have the best graphics are sometimes the absolute most fun and enjoyable games to play, period. Binding of Isaac Afterbirth is one such game. Between the original and the second game, I have about 650 hours played. The How To Survive games are good, cheap fun as well. They even have local co-op so my sister and I play together sometimes. Solid 394 hours in Terraria as well. It's somewhat sad that the best fun I've had in gaming in a long time comes from indie titles with unassuming graphics for the most part. I've all but given up with most AAA titles. I'm tired of being disappointed with them.

7 minutes ago, Brian said:

I would not recommend SLI for anyone considering buying a new notebook or building a desktop in the near future. Both AMD and NVIDIA are moving away from mgpu support and so are the lazy software developers who only want to create cross-platform titles and not bother with PC optimization. You get rare titles liked GTA V which make somewhat an effort to add in some extras for PC but overall it's just a straight port with a few extras like GameWorks if NVIDIA tosses them a bone. AMD doesn't have the budget to be devoting engineers to get game devs to add extras to PC games so this locks all of us into NVIDIA's GameWorks and depending on who you ask, that is either a good or bad thing. 

 

With consoles now moving to a more frequent upgrade cycle, I think we'll hopefully see a lot of fragmentation there and butt hurt with the guys buying the latest consoles (e.g. PS4 Neo) and not being able to get extra effects and having to deal w/the lowest common denominator. Maybe that will drive those guys to finally build a decent PC. 

I agree. I tell people: Multi-GPU once you've got the strongest card available already AND it's not enough, and be wary that it's just not going to work very often for new releases anymore. It's now a labour of love, and you better really love it.

 

As for titles like GTA V, they're still unoptimized as all hell. The CPU draw, the RAM requirements, the vRAM usage, the GPU usage... compared to the visuals produced, they're way WAY too high. It's not even an argue-able point, even. Lots of people like to say how people only gripe when they've got yesterday's hardware and blah blah blah etc... but if you're able to provide a certain experience on such weak hardware like the PS4 and Xbox 1, then with a system much stronger, we should see much better experiences. But it just never worked like that. And the performance went up and down with each update too. It was silly. The CPU usage it had was also silly. Just adding PC-specific features isn't enough. It seems to be what devs think is enough, looking at Black Ops 3 and GTA V and all those games. But those features don't mean too much if the game runs like crap and is buggy like hell. I don't get why they don't just make the games for PC and port to the consoles. It will be easier all around, and maybe some optimization might ACTUALLY reach us.

 

I hope it makes people just move to PC. They're making the consoles more and more PC-like. Especially with this stupid "upgrade" cycle they're considering. Maybe then we'll actually get some PC market love.

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Well looks like BGA bullshit is beginning on the desktop now, feast your eyes on this: 

colorful-2016-gtx1070motherboard.jpg

 

Quote

 Colorful, the Chinese PC hardware manufacturer, integrated the required components from a GTX 1070 directly onto a motherboard's PCB. We've heard rumors that GP104would be available in mobile form-factors in a few months, so it's possible that this draws from some laptop initiatives, but it's interesting to see others consider it too. As Videocardz pointed out, this is not an ATX-standard board, so it's possible that Colorful is planning on getting into (or supporting someone getting into) small form factor desktops.

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Motherboard-Colorful-Includes-GTX-1070-Graphics

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1 hour ago, Brian said:

Well looks like BGA bullshit is beginning on the desktop now, feast your eyes on this: 

colorful-2016-gtx1070motherboard.jpg

 

 

http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Motherboard-Colorful-Includes-GTX-1070-Graphics

I have been predicting the BGA cancer would metastasize and spread to desktop, but I did not think it would be so soon. What a piece of soft runny cow manure, LOL. Look at the laptop-like RAM slots, too. Build a SFF desktop piece of trash that's crippled like a turdbook, only not anywhere nearly as functional as one. Makes lots of sense for the Kool-Aid drinking imbeciles out there... and there are a whole bunch of them. Let's hope Colorful fails hard on this and gets massively ridiculed for this stupid stunt. They truly deserve it.

 

Don't you just hate it how idiots with low standards and lack of intelligence ruin things for everyone?  

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I have been predicting the BGA cancer would metastasize and spread to desktop, but I did not think it would be so soon.

I had hoped it'd happen sooner. I want it to happen as soon as possible. Because the quicker it happens, the easier it is for the market to shrug it off. Laptops being soldered? Nobody really cares. Desktops being soldered? Big backlash. Let them get rid of the thought of soldered anything being the only choice from the get-go.

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