Dschijn Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Check out anadtech's article about the PCI-e impact on the bandwidth.Could you please post that also here?! http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/8170-gtx980-pcie-bandwidth-scaling-inc-x4-1-1-~tb1-x4-2-0-tb2.html#post111415Flashing through the TB connection is actually possible, but it requires the GPU to be visible under device manager, power adapter plugged in, and enough battery charged. I have done a couple of flashes for my AMDs successfully via TB2. There is a bit difference if using UEFI VBIOS or not.I was planning to mod my GPU bios regarding a LinusTechTips video to enable the 0% fan mode on my latest GTX 970. But I coudln't even extract the GPUs BIOS with GPU-Z.And hearing "RMA again" is painful. If he has in fact blown up 2 cards then he is definitely doing something wrong, and EVGA is picking up the tab.Exactly what I am thinking. Something in the setup is very wrong… or he is mistakenly thinking the error is the card.My problem is that the egpu, from 3 days ago, it is not longer recognized, the fans are moving strangely, them are doing just very small movements. i'm going to do a UEFI installation because, as you said, i will have a lot of benefits but now if my gpu doesn't work i don't know how can i flash the bios so i'm f""""d.The EVGA support offer to me to pick the card up with UPS and flash/exchange itIt is really hard for me to follow your build and all the problems you are facing. Could you please start a thread here (if that is ok for @Tech Inferno Fan)? http://forum.techinferno.com/provisional-guides/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Inferno Fan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Apple released the new 15" rMBP equipped with AMD Radeon R9 M370X, 80% faster graphics performance:Apple - Press Info - Apple Introduces 15-inch MacBook Pro with Force Touch Trackpad & New $1,999 iMac with Retina 5K DisplaySeems that Apple has switched to AMD side. Is that a coincidence that every AMD eGPU that I have tried, detects an external monitor in OS X regardless of the MBP model, newer TB2 or older TB1. Would the 2015 13" MBP be easier with the AMD card? Hmm.2015 15" Macbook Pro has a Haswell i7-quad CPU, same as the 2013-14 models. eGPU users can skip this generation since all they'd get is an AMD dGPU, a force touchpad and a bit better battery life.Apple launches new 15-inch MacBook Pro with Force Touch trackpad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryStudios Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 @PerryStudios Does your iMac have a dedicated GPU? Pretty sure you'll require an additional monitor. @computersaysno According to my research, sadly it is...http://www.game-debate.com/hardware/?gid=499&graphics=Radeon%20HD%206970M are you sure I can't just uninstall the drivers of the dedicated GPU and replace it with eGPU? Because I don't want a second monitor. Plus I don't use my Mac OSX that much and the graphics card that comes with it suits fine for it. I often use Windows 7 Bootcamp. I'll keep in mind in the future to get integrated graphics card if I get a new iMac in the future or I just basically build a gaming PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikyork93 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Could you please post that also here?! http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/8170-gtx980-pcie-bandwidth-scaling-inc-x4-1-1-~tb1-x4-2-0-tb2.html#post111415I was planning to mod my GPU bios regarding a LinusTechTips video to enable the 0% fan mode on my latest GTX 970. But I coudln't even extract the GPUs BIOS with GPU-Z.Exactly what I am thinking. Something in the setup is very wrong… or he is mistakenly thinking the error is the card.It is really hard for me to follow your build and all the problems you are facing. Could you please start a thread here (if that is ok for @Tech Inferno Fan)? Provisional Guidesthis morning i sent the card back to evga, when it will be back i"ll try everythings again and i will let you know. with my first card the setup works fine until start of any game where the card was emitting a strange noise and then automatic reboot. thank you for your help and sorry for my poor english !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1sk Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 @m1sk: The MSI cards are very "big", so you will not be able to put it all into the AKiTiO itself or even think about closing the case! The PSU is crap, seriously get a 450-500W branded PSU.If you like it a little experimental you can buy a Dell DA-2 external PSU and follow this thread: http://forum.techinferno.com/enclosures-adapters/9426-220w-dell-da-2-ac-adapter-discussion.html So I should go for one the form factor cards? like this one: ASUS GTX960-MOC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 960 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - Newegg.com And what do you say about this PSU: http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Builder-EPS%C2%A080-certified-Power/dp/B0092ML1SC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1432140092&sr=8-2&keywords=Corsair+450W I'm still considering where to my stuff since my country has high import tax And I wanna check option that I could buy locally... Thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Inferno Fan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 So I should go for one the form factor cards? like this one: ASUS GTX960-MOC-2GD5 GeForce GTX 960 2GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card - Newegg.comAnd what do you say about this PSU: http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Builder-EPS%C2%A080-certified-Power/dp/B0092ML1SC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1432140092&sr=8-2&keywords=Corsair+450W I'm still considering where to my stuff since my country has high import tax And I wanna check option that I could buy locally... Thanks a lot! Please read about GTX970 card sizing at http://forum.techinferno.com/enclosures-adapters/7205-us%24189-akitio-thunder2-pcie-box-16gbps-tb2.html#post98210 . The GTX960 cards using the base board. So that single-fan ITX cards you've shortlisted will fit the AKiTiO chassis but be too tall to allow the outer cover to slide over it. Consider that link has are some other twin fan cards listed there that are shorter vertically but longer horizontally so the outer cover can be made to fit. eg: Galax, Zotac. I understand Galax/KFA2 is one of the cheaper options in Europe. There's been a great mini Galax GTX970 eGPU implementation by Dschijn at http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/9821-2014-15-macbook-pro-iris-gtx970%4016gbps-tb2-akitio-thunder2-win8-1-%5Bdschijn-2%5D.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ba10s118 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 QuotePlease read about GTX970 card sizing at [URL]http://forum.techinferno.com/enclosures-adapters/7205-us%24189-akitio-thunder2-pcie-box-16gbps-tb2.html#post98210[/URL] . The GTX960 cards using the base board. So that single-fan ITX cards you've shortlisted will fit the AKiTiO chassis but be too tall to allow the outer cover to slide over it. Consider that link has are some other twin fan cards listed there that are shorter vertically but longer horizontally so the outer cover can be made to fit. eg: Galax, Zotac. I understand Galax/KFA2 is one of the cheaper options in Europe.There's been a great mini Galax GTX970 eGPU implementation by Dschijn at [URL]http://forum.techinferno.com/implementation-guides-apple/9821-2014-15-macbook-pro-iris-gtx970%4016gbps-tb2-akitio-thunder2-win8-1-%5Bdschijn-2%5D.html[/URL]Just bare in mind that the KFA2/Galaxy GTX 960 is longer than the 970 and MIGHT not fit! Source:GTX 970: Quote Standard Graphics Card Dimensions: Length 179 mm Height 111.2 mm Width 38.6 mm GTX 960:Quote Standard Graphics Card Dimensions: Length 193 mm Height 124.3 mm Width 41.5 mm As you can see, the Gtx 960 is for some reason a tad larger than the 970. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschijn Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 @m1sk: The PSU is fine, but the Asus card is to wide as well! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Inferno Fan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Just bare in mind that the KFA2/Galaxy GTX 960 is longer than the 970 and MIGHT not fit! ...As you can see, the Gtx 960 is for some reason a tad larger than the 970.It's longer and taller. I can see they've got this unusually high heat pipe near the PCIe power connector. This card will also be problematic in fitting the outer AKiTiO cover over it. It's strange why GALAX made their "ITX" lower performing GTX960 bigger than their higher performing ITX GTX970. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ba10s118 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 It's longer and taller. I can see they've got this unusually high heat pipe near the PCIe power connector. This card will also be problematic in fitting the outer AKiTiO cover over it. It's strange why GALAX made their "ITX" lower performing GTX960 bigger than their higher performing ITX GTX970.Exactly - you would expect that a larger TDP footprint would require larger cooler and case. On another note! My project has started out by soldering some heavy duty cable for the 12v rail. http://puu.sh/hUqoe/7aedbb624f.jpghttp://puu.sh/hUqqB/ad9b462e66.jpgI will start a building thread as soon as all the parts are here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschijn Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The KFA cards look the same to me... o_O @ba10s118: That wires look so overkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euqlaog Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I was planning to mod my GPU bios regarding a LinusTechTips video to enable the 0% fan mode on my latest GTX 970. But I coudln't even extract the GPUs BIOS with GPU-Z.I used Netstor for flashing AMDs via command prompt and no problems, but haven’t tried Nvidia cards much. Nvflash doesn’t support 64bit Win8.1 - even if you try with —list option, it will get stuck. You may have better luck with a DOS version and a bootable USB stick but not recommended as MVC said that nvflash stopped. Any software / power failure and your GPU may become an unusable brick.this morning i sent the card back to evga, when it will be back i"ll try everythings again and i will let you know. with my first card the setup works fine until start of any game where the card was emitting a strange noise and then automatic reboot. thank you for your help and sorry for my poor english !!!Please never use again that powered riser when you will get the new card. Use a molex-to-barrel adapter and GPU directly mounted on the AKiTiO. I have got some faulty risers from eBay, it’s very important to check them with a multimeter whether they are back powered or not, and also that wires are properly jointed inside the molex connector and thick enough inside. Secondly, never use two PSUs. The AKiTiO power adapter plugged in DC jack + a back powered riser is a very dangerous combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ba10s118 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 The KFA cards look the same to me... o_O@ba10s118: That wires look so overkill Haha Well - better safe than sorry All cables will be sleeved as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Inferno Fan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Here's another attempt at an all-in-one enclosure using a Sonnet Echo SEL + ATX PSU + ITX case + GTX970: eGPU externe Grafikkarte Thunderbolt 2 Gaming Mac Laptop GTX 970 in Nordrhein-Westfalen - Bergisch Gladbach | Grafikkarte gebraucht kaufen | eBay Kleinanzeigen . It's now for auction on ebay-DE currently at 223 euro.<A HREF=http://i.ebayimg.com/t/eGPU-externe-Grafikkarte-Thunderbolt-2-Gaming-Mac-Laptop-GTX-970-Sonnet-SEL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/yUcAAOSwpDdVWi46/$_57.JPG><img width=600 src=http://i.ebayimg.com/t/eGPU-externe-Grafikkarte-Thunderbolt-2-Gaming-Mac-Laptop-GTX-970-Sonnet-SEL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/yUcAAOSwpDdVWi46/$_57.JPG></A> <A HREF=http://i.ebayimg.com/t/eGPU-externe-Grafikkarte-Thunderbolt-2-Gaming-Mac-Laptop-GTX-970-Sonnet-SEL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/SM8AAOSweW5VWi5D/$_57.JPG><img width=600 src=http://i.ebayimg.com/t/eGPU-externe-Grafikkarte-Thunderbolt-2-Gaming-Mac-Laptop-GTX-970-Sonnet-SEL-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/SM8AAOSweW5VWi5D/$_57.JPG></A> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ba10s118 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Here's another attempt at an all-in-one enclosure using a Sonnet Echo SEL + ATX PSU + ITX case + GTX970: eGPU externe Grafikkarte Thunderbolt 2 Gaming Mac Laptop GTX 970 in Nordrhein-Westfalen - Bergisch Gladbach | Grafikkarte gebraucht kaufen | eBay Kleinanzeigen . It's now for auction on ebay-DE currently at 223 euro. Looks to fit well - however IMHO it Kinda looses it's purpose, as for the money spent, you could build a gamer pc in that size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikyork93 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 I used Netstor for flashing AMDs via command prompt and no problems, but haven’t tried Nvidia cards much. Nvflash doesn’t support 64bit Win8.1 - even if you try with —list option, it will get stuck. You may have better luck with a DOS version and a bootable USB stick but not recommended as MVC said that nvflash stopped. Any software / power failure and your GPU may become an unusable brick.Please never use again that powered riser when you will get the new card. Use a molex-to-barrel adapter and GPU directly mounted on the AKiTiO. I have got some faulty risers from eBay, it’s very important to check them with a multimeter whether they are back powered or not, and also that wires are properly jointed inside the molex connector and thick enough inside. Secondly, never use two PSUs. The AKiTiO power adapter plugged in DC jack + a back powered riser is a very dangerous combination.i will follow what you just said ! do you know any advice for buy the molex to barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euqlaog Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 i will follow what you just said ! do you know any advice for buy the molex to barrel? I am not aware of any ready made molex-to-barrel to buy. These look like ones that Nando uses, but rated only 1amp@12V: 2.5mm DC Power Plug with Screw Terminal Block (5pcs) However, the screws seems do the job fine, and you don’t have to solder anything. I chopped the AKiTiO barrel off and soldered thick wires. I also have an universal 100W power adapter which includes removable 2.5mm/5.5mm barrel, but I prefer the soldered version as I want to be sure that it’s capable of feeding 75W for the x16 slot + 15W (TB board + PCIe board). Look at this thread for more information: http://forum.techinferno.com/enclosures-adapters/8317-%5Bguide%5D-making-molex-barrel-adapter.html EDIT: @Dschijn found one with thick wires (see the above), only need to solder the other end, or use heat shrink tube / something like this: Waterproof Butt Splices - CLAS OHLSON | Clas Ohlson But waterproof maybe overkill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrikhoe Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hey GuysJust was thinking today if I'm missing anything. I have the following stuff on order atmAkitio Thunder2Powered riser (the one Dschijn have remmonceded from eBay.de)RM650 PSUGTX 970Thunderbolt 2 Cable.Anything I'm missing?-----------------------------------------Already installed Windows 8.1I was planning on using the internal LCD for gaming, since i dont have a monitor.Am i right in amusing i do the following when i get all everything?- Connect it during chime- Install drivers- Reboot into OSX, do the optimus internal LCD guide posted here on the forum- Reboot, hold alt, select EFI boot, optimus should now be enabled?Sounds easy enough, will probably not be as easy though. Have a 15" Macbook Pro Retina late 2015, iGPU only. Also, do you think the GTX 980TI will work flawlessly when it comes out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschijn Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 @henrikhoe: You still need an adapter or the paperclip trick to start the PSU. Also keep in mind that using the riser isn't the best option and should only be considered if you want to place the card away from the AKiTiO or inside a (ITX) PC case. The rest seems solid to me The 980Ti should work, because it's gonna be a "Titan X light" and already confirmed to work as a eGPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morv Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Looks to fit well - however IMHO it Kinda looses it's purpose, as for the money spent, you could build a gamer pc in that size. So what's the purpose of an eGPU for you? In my opinion it perfectly fits the purpose: Have a gaming capable machine at home and unplug the graphics power if you need your book on the road. eGPU purpose to me isn't to have a most compact graphics solution. That's just a nice side effect that came up with the Akitio Thunder2 or other compact cases that are delivered with Thunderbolt adapters. Sounds easy enough, will probably not be as easy though. Have a 15" Macbook Pro Retina late 2015, iGPU only. Also, do you think the GTX 980TI will work flawlessly when it comes out? Are you from the future? Will Apple release another MBPr 15" at the end of the year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrikhoe Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 @henrikhoe: You still need an adapter or the paperclip trick to start the PSU. Also keep in mind that using the riser isn't the best option and should only be considered if you want to place the card away from the AKiTiO or inside a (ITX) PC case.The rest seems solid to me The 980Ti should work, because it's gonna be a "Titan X light" and already confirmed to work as a eGPU. What's the downside of using a riser? Just that gpu is outside case? My plan was to go for the galax gtx970 since its small enough to fit. But it's gone here in Norway. Only full sized cards. So my plan was to use a riser and put the card on top off the Akitio. Then dremel a hole in the Akitio case so that the riser cable can come out and reach the card on the top. Only thing is if I'm wondering if the riser is long enough to reach the top. The gtx970 I ordered has a backplate so should be fine that it's sitting on top. Also thanks for reminding about the psu. Ordered a 24 pin adapter to start it - - - Updated - - - So what's the purpose of an eGPU for you? In my opinion it perfectly fits the purpose: Have a gaming capable machine at home and unplug the graphics power if you need your book on the road.eGPU purpose to me isn't to have a most compact graphics solution. That's just a nice side effect that came up with the Akitio Thunder2 or other compact cases that are delivered with Thunderbolt adapters. Are you from the future? Will Apple release another MBPr 15" at the end of the year? Lol sorry late 2013. But my 8ball says also that Apple will update the rmbp when skylake hits. On a side note I totally agree with what you said about the usage of egpu. Portability and gaming when I'm home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschijn Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 @henrikhoe: Downside of a riser can be signal degeneration, instability,…If you want to use a long card with the AKiTiO you can still use it inside the inner cage of the AKiTiO, if you bend open the front part (like Tech Inferno Fan did). That is currently the recommended way (to plug the GPU directly into the AKiTiO). Keep in mind that you will need a barrel plug to power the system in that way of usage, because you are not using the powered riser to power you system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ba10s118 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 So what's the purpose of an eGPU for you? In my opinion it perfectly fits the purpose: Have a gaming capable machine at home and unplug the graphics power if you need your book on the road.eGPU purpose to me isn't to have a most compact graphics solution. That's just a nice side effect that came up with the Akitio Thunder2 or other compact cases that are delivered with Thunderbolt adapters.I see we have different views on the topic - I travel a lot, and often live for short periods (1 month or so ) on different hospitals, for me eGPU compact enough to keep in the akitio case is the perfect solution, as it will fit perfect in a laptop bag. But If you just want a dock when you come home every day, they will it definitely fit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVC Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 What's the downside of using a riser? Just that gpu is outside case? My plan was to go for the galax gtx970 since its small enough to fit. But it's gone here in Norway. Only full sized cards.So my plan was to use a riser and put the card on top off the Akitio. Then dremel a hole in the Akitio case so that the riser cable can come out and reach the card on the top. Only thing is if I'm wondering if the riser is long enough to reach the top. The gtx970 I ordered has a backplate so should be fine that it's sitting on top.Also thanks for reminding about the psu. Ordered a 24 pin adapter to start it- - - Updated - - -Lol sorry late 2013. But my 8ball says also that Apple will update the rmbp when skylake hits.On a side note I totally agree with what you said about the usage of egpu. Portability and gaming when I'm homeI have 12 AkitiosAt least a dozen MacsI have probably 100+ GPUsMaybe I know what I'm typing about.Riser is a moronic idea that does NOTHING but make problems and lead to black screens, dead cards and bogus RMAs. Someone needs to put a giant red "DON'T BOTHER WITH RISER CABLES UNLESS YOU LIKE BURNING UP PARTS".Bend the end of the case and be done with it. I have worked on 1,000s of Mac GPUs.Take my word or the word of someone who has made 1 work.I have been playing with eGPUs for 6 months or so. Powered riser is MORONIC, STUPID, WORTHLESS, DOESN'T HELP.If people want actual progress here, it's time to take an active step in preventing this electronic carnage.And I am going to ask the seasoned "experts" here to stop posting theoreticals, we really need actual "what works" not "what some book on electronics says should work".I really feel that there is too much inertia of BS here to make progress anymore. Macs are getting trickier. If we don't shed the repetitive nonsense that everyone repeats because everyone else is repeating it, NOTHING WILL EVER GET DONE.RISERS ARE NO LONGER PART OF RECOMMENDED BUILD UNLESS YOU LIKE FAILURE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morv Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I see we have different views on the topic - I travel a lot, and often live for short periods (1 month or so ) on different hospitals, for me eGPU compact enough to keep in the akitio case is the perfect solution, as it will fit perfect in a laptop bag. But If you just want a dock when you come home every day, they will it definitely fit your needs. Naw, I understand the reason you want a most compact solution perfectly. But like you said at last, you need to see the other people's needs, too That's why you can't say you could buy a gaming pc then instead of building a eGPU in a bigger case. I like the GPU in Akitio case idea too though and I'll switch to it in the next days as well. But it's just because I think it's nice and I've then got an easy way to carry it with me. I have 12 AkitiosAt least a dozen Macs I have probably 100+ GPUs Maybe I know what I'm typing about. Riser is a moronic idea that does NOTHING but make problems and lead to black screens, dead cards and bogus RMAs. Someone needs to put a giant red "DON'T BOTHER WITH RISER CABLES UNLESS YOU LIKE BURNING UP PARTS". Bend the end of the case and be done with it. I have worked on 1,000s of Mac GPUs. Take my word or the word of someone who has made 1 work. I have been playing with eGPUs for 6 months or so. Powered riser is MORONIC, STUPID, WORTHLESS, DOESN'T HELP. If people want actual progress here, it's time to take an active step in preventing this electronic carnage. And I am going to ask the seasoned "experts" here to stop posting theoreticals, we really need actual "what works" not "what some book on electronics says should work". I really feel that there is too much inertia of BS here to make progress anymore. Macs are getting trickier. If we don't shed the repetitive nonsense that everyone repeats because everyone else is repeating it, NOTHING WILL EVER GET DONE. RISERS ARE NO LONGER PART OF RECOMMENDED BUILD UNLESS YOU LIKE FAILURE. Why so mad and shout stuff? What is it that needs to get done? Progress on what? And what part take risers in Macs getting trickier? Those Akitio eGPUs work, some with risers, some without. Some have problems with risers, some don't. Why should a riser burn your card if it's not faulty(which you may check upon first use)? There was one guy now who may have killed his cards with the riser. I'm still using a riser + 2 90° angle adapters(oh lord!) in my case because otherwise I wouldn't be able to put my card and the Akitio board in there. Yep, I had problems with a GTX 780 which was awful but switching to a GTX 960 got rid of it. No, that's not perfect at all but I've got what I need and it works. I'll board the train of GTX 970 in Akitio case soon, though. The only reason I do this is the compactness and because I like trying stuff + GTX 970 has more power + 2 games atm. Still, I don't see any reason for such a post like yours. You don't need to help people if you don't want to, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.