Innovation Cooling IC Diamond Giveaway/Survey

[Innovation Cooling]

Innovation Cooling (IC ) will giveaway 100 syringes of IC Diamond 24 thermal compound to Tech | Inferno forum members who have registered as a forum member techinferno prior to June 26 2011 and wish to participate in our survey

ALL POTENTIAL PARTICIPANTS MUST POST THEIR INTENT TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS THREAD IN ORDER TO RECEIVE THEIR FREE TIM.

PLEASE BE SURE TO BENCHMARK YOUR CPU TEMPS WITH YOUR CURRENT TIM AND RECORD YOUR RESULTS BEFORE USING ICD24 FOR TESTING. WE NEED BEFORE AND AFTER PLEASE (Ambient, idle, load at the very least)!

Instructions and Qualifiers

1.) 1 Syringe per responding forum member.

2.) This is a on a first come basis. I will post notice on this forum when the giveaway ends

3.) Participating members are to post your test results on this forum within the first 30 days after receiving the sample. Gentleman's agreement.(THOSE WHO DO NOT HONOR THE AGREEMENT WILL BE FOREVER IMMORTALIZED ON THE WALL OF SHAME WHICH WILL BE POSTED AT THE COMPLETION OF THE SURVEY)

4.) Email me your mailing address in a format we can cut and paste easily for processing.

5.) Must agree to test the product and give feedback to the forum, and thus to Innovation Cooling (Current load/idle/ambient temps + fan speed then load/idle/ambient temps + fan speed with IC24)

The specifics will be posted in a separate Results Thread, we will be looking for simple data feedback, before and after results as well as longer term reliability data and looking forward to actual comparisons in application methods and comparing products from other manufacturers.

We would like to first get CPU, GPU's, , and Laptops results as a priority, then any you are free to apply/experiment on other components with remaining balance. Desktop test dara is also acceptable

All personal information is kept entirely confidential and destroyed upon completion of giveaway. Please PM me if you have any questions.

Thanks everyone and I look forward to working with you all and hopefully learning something in the process.

Again to register for your survey sample post IN THIS THREAD "ON MY HONOR IN EXCHANGE FOR FREE COMPOUND I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR TO TEST AND POST MY RESULTS"

After you have posted your registration Email to complete registration.

We are mailing from the USA so allow time for any international processing and shipping .

MAKE SURE YOUR OWN ADDRESS IS CORRECT - WE JUST CUT AND PASTE - IF IT IS NOT DELIVERED DUE TO REGISTRANT'S ERRORS WE DO NOT RE-MAIL SAMPLES

EMAIL ADDRESS FOR REGISTRATION -- [email protected]

All the best

Andrew

President

Innovation Cooling

*EDIT by StamatisX*

Post your results here:

http://forum.techinferno.com/general-notebook-discussions/913-ic-diamond-24-survey-results.html

[StamatisX]

Hello Andrew, thank you for participating to our forum. The results posted on your website seem very promising and I am really interested to test your product on my Alienware M17x -R2 and it would be great if other members of this forum can confirm them.

I will stick this thread in order to get the appropriate attention.

[Innovation Cooling]

StamatisX, Thanks! Send me your mailing address and I will send out some compound tomorrow to play around with.

[StamatisX]

I have sent you an email with my mailing address, looking forward to do the testing, it would be great if you could provide your recommended testing methodology (applying methods, monitoring programs, stability test programs, benchmarks, etc...) so we can have a solid basis for our results (preferably on a separate thread so we can keep this one clean for qualifying and registration instructions only). Welcome to our forum btw.

[svl7]

Hey, welcome!! Great offer, I never used ICD so far... I've got one little question about it. Some people say it can scratch the die, is this a common issue? I'd like to hear what you'd say about this.

I'm interested, but first of all I need to get my GPU fixed

[Stevenxowens792]

[MENTION=465]Innovation Cooling[/MENTION] - I am using the Shin Etsu from Fry's electronics. It's considered above high quality as for about an 1/8th tube costs 10 bucks. Would you be willing to put the ic diamond against it? If so, I am willing to try a tube as it takes about 2 hours to completely disassemble the m14x and apply. Regardless I would like to say thank you so much for allowing TechInferno to participate in this. I truly appreciate it. Best Wishes, StevenX

[Guest Frontpage News]

If you are a Tech|Inferno forum member prior to June 26th 2011, then head on over to our General Notebook Forum and post your intent to test IC Diamond and post your results. Innovation Cooling has graciously allocated*100 syringes of IC Diamond 24 thermal compound for T|I members that wish [...]

More...

[Jimbo]

If I'm already using it, can I have some more for free?

I'm not sure if the results will be very different though.

[mw86]

I am interested and may sign up with a system of mine, but I am still debating what system. I would like to know your response to SVL7's question too. Your site states IC Diamond is composed mostly of diamond powder (92%) which is synthetic diamond made in a lab... synthetic diamond and actual diamond should have similar hardness levels going by Mohs Scale of Hardness. See this website here http://www.bestcrystals.com/hardness.html

The scale states these metals at this hardness level from 1-10:Silver (2 1/2 - 3), Gold (2 1/2 - 3), Copper (2 1/2 - 3), Platinum (4 - 4 1/2), Iron (4 - 5)Diamond is 10 on the scale and is defined as (Will scratch glass and all stones with a rating 1-9)

So I am very interested in also trying the product and posting the test results too. First I would like to know the answer to the same question that SVL7 had for you... how likely is this compound to scratch the surface of the cpu or gpu die and the opposing surface of the metal heat sink, knowing the fact that Diamond can scratch any of the above mentioned materials? Also I would like to ask do you have any data on any damage that may have incurred (if any) utilizing this compound in previous real world user tests?

[Innovation Cooling]

Hey, welcome!! Great offer, I never used ICD so far... I've got one little question about it. Some people say it can scratch the die, is this a common issue? I'd like to hear what you'd say about this.

I'm interested, but first of all I need to get my GPU fixed

FAQ on the scratch issue

Some background on the subject - 100 years of standard Industry practice on abrasives is well documented and well understood by those in the business. Most thermal compounds are liquid sandpaper or lapping compounds by definition.

Light gray compounds are usually/mostly made up of aluminum oxide. (Check MSDS for AS5,Ceramique, ShinEtsu, Dow etc. hard metal oxides are more common than you would think in thermal compounds)

Aluminum oxide is what they make sandpaper out of.....MOHS Hardness scale 9

Diamond on the MOHS hardness scale: 10

Copper MOHS: 3

To be abrasive you just have to be harder than the material to be cut.

Most thermal compounds have particle sizes in the range of 600 - 800 same as your 600 - 800 sandpaper

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/grit.html

If you are ambitious, you can calculate cutting speeds and material removal between diamond -- the hardest, (cubic boron nitride is actually harder than diamond) and the second hardest -- aluminum oxide.

For the insignificant distance traveled, equivalent pressures, You will not see any difference between the two under normal use.

Abrasives have to move to work.

For all compounds- if you are a hardware reviewer who re-installs his sink 50 times a week or constantly rotates the sink under pressure they are going to see wear regardless of the compound used then should switch to something less abrasive if they have an issue with it like a zinc oxide compound.

Empirically I have run 20+ of these giveaway's with over 800 user tests at this point and has not been an issue. In 3 years I have had no emails, phone calls or any contact whatsoever or complaints on the subject

I would like to note that IC Diamond is classified/called a Flour in the business, below is an image of a IHS intentionally lapped with ICD - This can be accomplished with just about any thermal compound.

Another way to picture it - Most thermal compounds are approximately 600- 800 grit, so take some typical aluminum oxide 600 grit sand paper and Mount it between sink and IHS

Generally 80% of all retail sinks have 50+ PSI contact pressure, if you have high spots with an irregular contour the high spots can have a PSI of 100 lbs (see picture)

now rotate the sink back and forth a few times under pressure it's going to leave a polished mark, so a general caution for any thermal compound but not ICD in particular.

Also note we are doing a video comparing an assortment of compounds and their polishing capability along with microscopic images of the results with enough detail to qualify as a professional analysis and alleviate any concerns people may have.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Innovation Cooling

[StamatisX]

Thanks for the thorough explanation Andrew

[mw86]

I greatly enjoyed your explanation you really went out of your way to answer that thank you very much for that Andrew. So I would like to participate. I will send u my address when I decide what system to use for your test... I need to make sure its one you need testing from. There is a HP laptop I have available that I could do the tests, apply the compound and retest. I have an Alienware system on the way but debating on if I'll be repasting it at all... Its an M18x and I not sure I have enough experience yet to get the gpu's and CPU out from the very middle of the laptop to replace the thermal compound with the Diamond. So for now I am offering up a HP laptop to do the test to. I recently did just that with the HP laptop with a different compound MX-4. Since I am comfortable doing that process to that system... i have an identical system which I maintain and could apply the compound to. Its a HP HDX18t 1200CTO with Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000@2ghz and Nvidia's GT130M. If those specifications are acceptable for the test then I will email you my mailing address for the test. I can also so if I get enough courage I may apply it to the aforementioned M18x and post those results too...

Edited June 28, 2011 by mw86

[Innovation Cooling]

@Innovation Cooling - I am using the Shin Etsu from Fry's electronics. It's considered above high quality as for about an 1/8th tube costs 10 bucks. Would you be willing to put the ic diamond against it? If so, I am willing to try a tube as it takes about 2 hours to completely disassemble the m14x and apply. Regardless I would like to say thank you so much for allowing TechInferno to participate in this. I truly appreciate it. Best Wishes, StevenX

From the public data taken so far an average of -1.23 C out of 14 tests in IC Diamond's favor definitely one of the more competitive compounds, however the sample size is small generally you do not see a stabilization of the numbers till you hit around 30+ test samples. At around 30-40 tests you get a 95% confidence on the data and does not change much after that as in the AS5 chart below the average has changed only a couple of tenths of a degree C either way from the initial 34 tests to 200 end user tests.

I do have some Corsair H70 stock compound tests to add from OCUK which is supposed to be Shin Etsu but I am not sure whether it is the better or lessor of the two Shin Etsu's I am familiar with, If the better then the average will go to -2 C from the 1.23 C which is what I would expect from my numbers but my numbers don't count.

The other factor for notebooks in particular is longevity of the compound to consider - I am running a longevity study on another notebook forum and I have a few people @ 1,5 to 2 years with no change in temperature while other repasted laptops with other retail compounds are experiencing initial failure after 4 or 5 months. your call

see next post on reliability

Edited June 29, 2011 by Innovation Cooling

[Innovation Cooling]

FAQ Thermal Reliability

OEM's Spec material bulk loadings above a 90+ % for reliability. IC Diamond has a 94% bulk loading which includes 92% diamond + miscellaneous material.

There are different kinds of thermal resistance. One is contact resistance which the retail compounds mostly rely on by being of higher liquid content so they flow well into the voids and air gaps and with great or low contact resistance which enhances thermal performance so that end users are satisfied with the performance and enjoy instant gratification.

The Problem with Thin, Liquid, Low Viscosity Thermal Compounds

Low viscosity, highly liquid thermal pastes enjoy an initial success with low contact resistance but this also make them susceptible to Pump Out. Pump Out occurs when the system heats up, the joint compresses, and a little of the liquid is pushed out. After a sufficient number of cycles, the paste has shrunken in size leaving voids and causing a contact resistance failure. A variant of compound failure, Bake Out , occurs when consistently high thermal stress causes thermal degradation of the liquid. Pump Out and Bake Out reflect the research of many in the thermal community and hundreds of technical papers exist on this well-documented issue.

Illustration 1: Innovation Cooling has an ongoing program of reliability testing. Pictured below are some initial accelerated tests with some 3X10 glass slides,. Attached picture of test result was run for 20 hours at 150C, the center picture ICD is IC Diamond. The others are commonly used retail performance pastes, this highlights the stability of ICD7. The competition compounds feature the formation of voids, and span the range of initial failure to complete failure. IC diamond was observed to have no visible points of failure under these conditions. The picture is back lighted so the void formation is clearly visible

Liquid is a necessary component where thermal pastes are concerned otherwise you would be applying a powder. IC Diamond uses much less liquid so consequently is much less prone to failures as the liquid is wicked or baked away The shrinkage of the compound is almost non existent due to the low liquid volume content to begin with and so maintains contact/ thermal performance for extended periods and by design to set up into a crayon like consistency over time, still pliable and relying on the high bulk Diamond conductivity for performance as you are left with basically diamond held coherently together with the polymeric binders and is easily removed when re-liquefied with a solvent

So in short the reason it is thick is that it is harder to pump a solid than a liquid and provides a basis for long term extended reliability.

High viscosity or thickness of compound is a positive feature to seek out and necessary for for long term reliability

It's easy to design a compound for performance and it is also easy to design for reliability

It is very hard to do both in one package

[mw86]

I'm sold you could say... the reliability is very clear from the way the compound works as you explained Andrew. Thank you for that, I've been to the home page and enjoyed reading about the overclock competition that ICD assisted in winning second place at the competition where everyone was using dry ice to cool their rigs. The fact that they used ICD and it still gave that edge at sub zero temperatures is great. Just shows the right crystals Diamond will be the best and most enduring thermal transfer medium

Edit: I swear on my honor in exchange for free compound that I will test and post the results in the format guidelines to be provided including prefered testing methods. I emailed you my mailing address if the aforementioned rig is okay I will do the tests and post the results.

Edited June 28, 2011 by mw86

[Michael]

Very interesting info. Thanks for the information @Innovation Cooling

I would also like to participate in your testing. Just emailed you my address.

[Pursuit]

I repasted my Alienware just 1 month ago, I used IC Diamond on cpu and the temp is between 72-74 degree celsius during gaming ,Shin Etsu is used on gpus the temp is around 67-69 degree. Mind you it's winter here now.

I did try the brush on Zalman STG1.........it's no good for me somehow.

I will stick to Shin etsu and IC Diamond cos they gave me good low numbers.

I would also like some spare IC diamond but too lazy to work on my Alienware until summer!

Edited June 28, 2011 by Pursuit

[svl7]

[MENTION=465]Innovation Cooling[/MENTION]: Thank you for the detailed answer, you mention some very interesting aspects which I never thought about. The pump out and bake out is something that I experience from time to time. I noticed it recently after exchaning the GPU, (but it's possible that it was caused to a certain degree by cooling the system with dice )

Once in a while I come across posts in which people say that their die got scratched by the TIM, and it was always ICD... As I said, I never used it so far and therefore can't say whether it's a possible issue, but nevertheless I always think about this when I read about ICD. I'm not a chemistry expert or material scientist and don't know what exactly other companies use in there TIMs, and what the hardness of the particles in these pastes are, but diamond is well-known for its hardness that's why I can imagine that it could be an issue, but I'll have to test it myself.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts about this subject. It's true that the particles need to move for scratching anything... so I guess if there was a scratching issue, it would be caused by cleaning off the paste before reapplying fresh one.

Btw, 50 PSI is a lot of pressure, I guess this applies to desktop cooling systems? I imagine this would crack a mobile CPU.

I'm really interested in testing ICD, I'll let you know when I recovered my GPU, also I'd like to hear about the tests you want to see.

[mw86]

So here's an example of bakeout on stock paste of a 2-3 year old laptop... HP HDX 18t 1200-CTO

@Innovation Cooling will those of us participating get a confirmation from you that you accepted our entry and received our mailing address? You mentioned to StamatisX you will send his out, will you be telling each of use here or through e-mail that you received the mailing address fine?

Edited June 28, 2011 by mw86
added question

[StamatisX]

I suggest we create a list with the names that submitted their mail address to Andrew. This way we keep track of the submissions and know from how many people we will expect results.

[Innovation Cooling]

Once in a while I come across posts in which people say that their die got scratched by the TIM, and it was always ICD... .

Btw, 50 PSI is a lot of pressure, I guess this applies to desktop cooling systems? I imagine this would crack a mobile CPU.

I am aware of everyone of them, I have saved/ recorded them and even know the physical location they originated from.....

Here is one from overclock.net CPU IHS scratched, is this normal? - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

The scratches shown here are claimed to be IC Diamond. It is physically impossible for ICD to have caused those scratches either the top to bottom sanded grain most likely from lapping or the random scratches. Any abrasives expert would testify the scratches could only have been produced from particle sizes 10X the size as what makes up ICD. Bottom picture is the result of concentrated lapping with ICD no large grain scratching in sight, go figure.

There are no "large" diamond chips in the compound we buy from one of the largest and most reputable US manufacturers, if you understand the process it is just not possible - it is like saying you have silver nuggets coming out of your tube of AS5.

Unfortunately a couple of hardware reviewers commented on it without much thought overlooking the fact that in the test series alone they did 25 mounts without mention of how many mounts were run in previous testing series which could have been 50? 100? 200? all on a micron thick laser etch? Basically it is a non issue, urban/internet myth, negative buzz marketing etc.

Just to note aluminum oxide which is a component in most TIM's is nearly as hard as diamond and will even cut glass and stone, just because diamond is the hardest does not mean there are not close competitors. Some interesting reading out there if you are into that stuff is what different cutting materials are used to cut copper, iron, plastic etc. each has it it's own +/- 's and good to know what to use next time you drill a hole.

I have seen 90 PSI on a bare die in a server. Smaller contact area pressure its going to go up, most are probably well over 50lbs. Been trying to get get some Contact/pressure images on another notebook giveaway but no takers as of yet.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Innovation Cooling

[Innovation Cooling]

So here's an example of bakeout on stock paste of a 2-3 year old laptop... HP HDX 18t 1200-CTO

@Innovation Cooling will those of us participating get a confirmation from you that you accepted our entry and received our mailing address? You mentioned to StamatisX you will send his out, will you be telling each of use here or through e-mail that you received the mailing address fine?

I love paste failure pictures and you have some pretty nasty ones too.

If you qualified and sent us your mailing address it's on it's way.

we only occasionally screw things up but everybody gets covered. Have not checked but I am sure yesterday's responses are in the mail.

[mw86]

I also love the fact that we can take such examples of poor quality pastes and the application of said paste. That example above just shows how bad these companies are at protecting our investments and the performance derived from such is so bad you'd think it would affect reputation by now. Good to know that if we sent you our mailing address and posted our intent here that you have already mailed out the compound from the previous days emails... Looking forward to testing this out and seeing the real world improvement from it... Or better yet the durability of it in years to come. Like you mentioned those systems that had competitors compound utterly failing after 2 years and in other forums you tested the reliability of the paste over a few years... that's really great and I hope all our test provide a clear cut spread of data showing the vast improvement ICD can provide.

[mw86]

@Innovation Cooling Hey guys I received my sample of Innovation Cooling Diamond today in the mail and for those who are in disbelief I posted the picture here. Sign up now guys and girls if you were a member before the end of June about you are entitled to a free sample of this compound if you simply post your before and after temp readings on idle and load. As I promised I will post my results on here by 30 days from today. Sign on up everyone Andrew will send out the compound as promised just email your mailing address to him, his email is in the first post of this thread. I need to know like everyone else participating what the preferred procedure is for testing before and after on idle and during load. So what thermal monitoring software do you prefer us to use and what program for testing the gpu or CPU under load? Examples I know of are Furmark, prime95, Wprime, Intel Burn test etc... thanks again Andrew, we just need a clear cut testing method... The preferred method of application of the compound seems to be right on the Innovation Cooling website... The pea sized method... If I repaste a processor such as a 2920xm what method would you suggest as the die shape is rectangular... Not square... Thanks again.

Edited October 18, 2011 by mw86

[Innovation Cooling]

The preferred method of application of the compound seems to be right on the Innovation Cooling website... The pea sized method... If I repaste a processor such as a 2920xm what method would you suggest as the die shape is rectangular... Not square... Thanks again.

The chip is fairly narrow so I think a 3/4 line would be fine length wise