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All Memory is Not Created Equal - HyperX 2133 CL12 versus Ripjaws 2133 CL11

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Well, try as you wrote. Your main mistake before: timing RC = 0.

And for quick testing of stability with new timing configuration you can use very nice program TM5.

Link? Is TM5 short for something else? I find nothing on a quick Google search except things unrelated to memory testing.

I tried numerous settings and nothing seems to completely avoid STOP errors, C++ and .NET crashes other than leaving stock timing with the exception of setting CL 11 and tRP 11 (all other timings stock). I have spent many hours experimenting with memory timing before now and changing other settings always produces issue with this RAM. This is one of the reasons I am looking for something different.

The settings below are completely stable, but more aggressive timings will sooner or later induce an error, app crash or BSOD of some sort. And, running 1.5V with CL11 or CL10 is not stable for me. Running 1.65V doesn't hurt anything. I have been running it at 1.65V for a very long time without issues. Perhaps my CPU overclock is high enough that introducing more aggressive memory timings is less stable? If so, the CPU overclock is the better choice.

The 2x8 Vengeance should be arriving on Monday, so we will see how that does. Perhaps using 2 sticks instead of 4 will be of some value.

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Thank you. I will use that. Appreciate the link.

It looks like the only timing more aggressive than stock with 100% stability are to leave everything except tCL and tRP at programmed SPD and those two can be lowered to 11. It should be noted that this Kingston HyperX began life at 1866 CL11. I flashed it to 2133 CL12 with Thaiphoon Burner, so being able to run it at 2133 CL11 is a significant improvement already.

Edit - works fine and passes XTU memory stress tests and TM5 stress tests with 11-12-11-36 and the rest of the timings stock. Changing anything else, even just to the next step in settings (i.e. CL10, tRCD to 11, or tRP to 33) is not stable.

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Show your other timings in bios (not in XTU). And benchmark Aida64, cash and memory.

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2000MHz 10-10-10-29 R4, M18xR2 2133MHz 10-9-10-29 XMP 2 extreme/benchmarking...XMP1 24/7 10-10-10-31

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@Klem K4B2G0846D http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/file/2011/product/2011/8/29/729200ds_k4b2gxx46d_rev113.pdf

K4B4G0846Q http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/file/product/DS_4G_Q-die_DDR3_Rev10-1.pdf

Identical specs KO/MA, KO kingston PnP - Corsair Vengeance - G Skill, MA (1866MHz) special editions or Samsung sticks.

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I added results for Corsair Vengeance 2133 CL11 memory (2x8GB) to the photo album showing in the opening post. The results are very close to identical to the Kingston RAM with a very tiny edge in performance leaning toward Kingston. I will stick with the 16GB of Vengeance because it runs at lower voltage (1.500V) and CR1 versus my 16GB (4x4) Kingston 2133 CL12 (1.650V) running at CR2. I'm thinking it might free up some power for extreme CPU and GPU overclocking and might run a tad cooler.

The stock timings for the Vengeance 2133 CL11 @ 1066 MHz 11-11-11-31 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 42-278-7-16-9-9-33 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW) and I might play with those a bit to see if I can eek out a little more speed.

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Show your other timings in bios (not in XTU). And benchmark Aida64, cash and memory.
Other than tRC, XTU is reflectling exactly what is set in the BIOS. The XTU settings are identical except that tRC is not shown by XTU for some reason.

Vengeance is also working well, and 100% stable at 2133 CL10, which I was not able to do with the Kingston RAM.

@ 1066 MHz - 10-11-11-31 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 42-278-7-16-9-9-33 (RC-RFC-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP-FAW)

wBH6Gb6l.png LjXykBJl.png

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You can set RAS from 31 to 27.

yea thats the default advertized RAS which is 27 lol. wonder why they dont come with 27, weird. thanks Mr Fox for testing that as soon as I get mine I'll get that CL10 at 2133 lol

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Corsair Vengeance 2133 CL11 memory 32GB (4x8GB) CR1!

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Corsair Vengeance 2133 CL10 memory 32GB (4x8GB) CR1!

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24/7 9-10-10-28 1.5V, "K4B4G0846Q HYK0 In laptops max for this chips 2133 MHz with timings 10-11-11-27"...:) CL9 2133MHz is definitely achievable.

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XMP CL & tCWL proper settings - default/low voltage overclocking 1.5V - 1.55V, CL9 tCWL 7

DDR3-1866 - DDR3-1600 - DDR3-1333

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[MENTION=119]Mr. Fox[/MENTION] XMP profile CL10 tRCD 10 tRP 10 tRAS 30 stock settings (CR1 1.5V) copy XMP profile settings 'Custom Profile' -> set XMP 1 profile option/1.5V

Corsair CMSX16GX3M2B2133C1_XMP_CL10_10_10_30.zip

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24/7 9-10-10-28 1.5V, "K4B4G0846Q HYK0 In laptops max for this chips 2133 MHz with timings 10-11-11-27"...:) CL9 2133MHz is definitely achievable.

[ATTACH]10991[/ATTACH]

XMP CL & tCWL proper settings - default/low voltage overclocking 1.5V - 1.55V, CL9 tCWL 7

DDR3-1866 - DDR3-1600 - DDR3-1333

[ATTACH]10994[/ATTACH]

@Mr. Fox XMP profile CL10 tRCD 10 tRP 10 tRAS 30 stock settings (CR1 1.5V) copy XMP profile settings 'Custom Profile' -> set XMP 1 profile option/1.5V

Great. But very much depending from quality of memory controller in CPU!

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The XMP profile works, but it slows the system down from 2133 to 2000 (15x multiplier instead of 16x) and the performance decrease compared to 2133. I am sure that XMP profile works great for folks with Vengenace 1866. If I use all of the same timings as the XMP entered manually in the BIOS and set the multiplier for 16x (2133) it is completely unstable. I tried using 1.55V, 1.60V and 1.65V and it did not improve the stability problems. So, it does not appear those timings are supported. I was able to get the system to POST at 2400 CL12, but Windows refuses to load.

Here is what the lower performance results look like using slower the DDR3-2000 XMP profile.

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Also, 10-11-11-27 is not stable. Too many errors and random BSOD. Setting tRAS for 28 is stable, but provides no measurable benefit in speed (as noted below). Maybe even a minor decrease in performance from trying to set the timings too tight.

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This is original Samsung memory moduls with the same chips and they work exactly the same as Corsair Vengeance 2133.

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A couple of folks have commented that Corsair and NewEgg advertise the Vengeance 2133 to be 11-11-11-27. It runs at 11-11-11-31 by default on my system for some reason. At any rate, the tRAS setting being 31 versus 27 is inconsequential.

With 11-11-11-27 (tRAS manually set to 27) it is stable. But, the performance is less than 10-11-11-31. With CL10 set, tRAS being set to 27 is unstable. Compare the results in these two images. At the end of the day it's the results, not the settings, that matter.

2133 @ 11-11-11-27 2133 @ 10-11-11-31

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Yes, fully programmable.

[MENTION=119]Mr. Fox[/MENTION] tRAS 31 default timing for both 2000MHz/2131MHz, I removed stock 2133MHz and lowest 1066MHz - 2000MHz 9-10-10-27 stable. Confirmed XMP 2133MHz auto-sets to 2000MHz Dell/Alienware :sleeping:

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@Klem is the SPD programmable without pulling the SPD chip to fix the horrible stock clocks and timings?

First half of SPD of course no! We cant write JEDEC. Because it is Samsung (you know when they started to set protection)! But second half SPD of course programmable and we can write XMP1 and XMP2 profile. And of course, as you know, we can set frequency and timings in bios, in Custom profile.

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Stolichnaya...? I prefer Polish ;) fist half, clocks and timings fully programmable.

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Do you guys have the schematic for m18x and m17x memory voltage regulation? I'm wondering if clevo's using inferior regulation and filtering that is holding me back compared to you guys, or if I just got an inferior set of memory. Best CAS9 I can do is 1900 (not bad), and best CAS10 is ~2000 (bad).

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Yes, fully programmable.

@Mr. Fox tRAS 31 default timing for both 2000MHz/2131MHz, I removed stock 2133MHz and lowest 1066MHz - 2000MHz 9-10-10-27 stable. Confirmed XMP 2133MHz auto-sets to 2000MHz Dell/Alienware :sleeping:

[ATTACH]11014[/ATTACH][ATTACH]11015[/ATTACH]

how do you make it go 2000 mhz i dont get it lol. and does this work at 32gb? or only cr1

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2000 can only be done on ivb and haswell, not sb. You turn off the extra 1.33x multiplier and raise the memory multiplier.

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Quote

Corsair Vengeance 2133 CL11 memory 32GB (4x8GB) CR1! [ATTACH]10982[/ATTACH] Corsair Vengeance 2133 CL10 memory 32GB (4x8GB) CR1! [ATTACH]10983[/ATTACH]

What are all of your BIOS timings for the second screen shot? My system will not function with 10-10-10-27 @ 2133. Please post them and I will attempt it again. Are these manual timing settings or an XMP profile, as the XMP profile J95 provided to me works, but downclocks to 2000 and the performance is not good enough at the slower clock speed.

It could be the Haswell memory controller is why it works for you... may explain why it does not work with Ivy Bridge.

- - - Updated - - -



Quote

2000 can only be done on ivb and haswell, not sb. You turn off the extra 1.33x multiplier and raise the memory multiplier.

How is this done? I don't see BIOS settings for it. Is it something you change in the SPD with Thaiphoon Burner?

Here is what Thaiphoon Burner is reporting from my SPD:
Spoiler

Manufacturing Description
Module Manufacturer: Corsair
SDRAM Manufacturer: Undefined
Module Part Number: CMSX16GX3M2B2133C1
Module Series: Vengeance
Module Manufacturing Date: Week 2D, 200D
Module Manufacturing Location: Fremont, USA
Module Serial Number: 00000000h
Module PCB Revision: 00h
SDRAM Die Revision: 00h
Legitimate Architectures
Fundamental Memory Type: DDR3 SDRAM
Module Speed Grade: DDR3-2133
Module Type: SO-DIMM (67.60 mm)
Module Capacity: 8192 MB
Module Nominal Height: 29 < H <= 30 mm
Module Thickness Maximum, Front: 2 < T <= 3 mm
Module Thickness Maximum, Back: 2 < T <= 3 mm
Reference Raw Card: B
Reference Raw Card Revision: 0
Number of DIMM Ranks: 2
SDRAM Device Package: Standard Monolithic
SDRAM Device Die Count: Not specified
Signal Loading: Not specified
Number of Column Addresses: 10 bits
Number of Row Addresses: 16 bits
Number of Bank Addresses: 3 bits (8 banks)
SDRAM Device Width: 8 bits
Programmed SDRAM Capacity: 4 Gb
Calculated SDRAM Capacity: 4 Gb
SDRAM Page Size: 1 KB
Primary Memory Bus Width: 64 bits
Memory Bus Width Extension: 0 bits
Supported Voltage Levels: 1.50 V/1.35 V
DRAM Timing Parameters
Fine Timebase Dividend: 1
Fine Timebase Divisor: 1
Fine Timebase: 0.0010 ns
Medium Timebase Dividend: 1
Medium Timebase Divisor: 8
Medium Timebase: 0.125 ns
Clock Cycle Time (tCK min): 0.938 ns
CAS# Latencies Supported (tCL): 6T, 7T, 8T, 9T, 10T,
11T
CAS# Latency Time (tAA min): 9.375 ns
RAS# to CAS# Delay Time (tRCD min): 10.250 ns
Row Active to Row Active Delay (tRRD min): 6.500 ns
Row Precharge Delay Time (tRP min): 10.250 ns
Active to Precharge Delay Time (tRAS min): 29.000 ns
Act to Act/Refresh Delay Time (tRC min): 39.325 ns
Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC min): 260.750 ns
Write Recovery Time (tWR min): 15.000 ns
Write to Read Command Delay (tWTR min): 7.625 ns
Read to Precharge Command Delay (tRTP min): 8.375 ns
Four Active Windows Delay (tFAW min): 30.875 ns
RZQ / 6 Drive Strength: Supported
RZQ / 7 Drive Strength: Supported
DLL-Off Mode Support: Supported
Thermal Parameters
Extended Temperature Range: 0-95 °C
Extended Temperature Refresh Rate: 2X (85-95 °C)
Auto Self Refresh (depending on temperature): Not supported
Module Thermal Sensor: Not Incorporated
On-die Thermal Sensor Readout: Not supported
Partial Array Self Refresh: Supported
SPD Protocol
SPD Revision: 1.1
SPD Bytes Total: 256
SPD Bytes Used: 176
SPD Checksum: 37E3h (OK)
CRC covers bytes: 0-116
Part number details
JEDEC DIMM Label: 8GB 2R x8 PC3L-17000S-10-11-B0
Timing table
Frequency tCL tRCD tRP tRAS tRC tRFC tRRD tWR tWTR tRTP
1067 MHz 11 11 11 31 42 278 7 16 9 9
1067 MHz 10 11 11 31 42 278 7 16 9 9
933 MHz 9 10 10 28 37 244 7 15 8 8
800 MHz 8 9 9 24 32 209 6 12 7 7
667 MHz 7 7 7 20 27 174 5 10 6 6
533 MHz 6 6 6 16 21 140 4 8 5 5

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