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DIY eGPU not for amateurs?


davide445

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Ok thanks I will search for PSU based on your specs.

About the enclosure: I was about to compare the cost of a DIY solution with the ViDock one (I started feeling the DIY task too difficult for me and wanted to evaluate how much will cost me a bit of peaceful plug and play), when I come trough the PE4H V3.2: it's perfect!

I have the fit enclosure with all inside except the PSU (also ViDock is so) for USD170!

If you confirm this is ok this is my solution.

Absolutely. In fact I said exactly the same several times in this thread, but obviously not loudly enough:

Case-wise, you could just aim for a PE4H-3.2 (ebay item 170990045067), but you have to figure out getting power to it and worry about graphics card compatability.

The graphics card compatability issue is that you need one with the PCI express power on the end rather than on the top. See the spec here, which means you need a card like this one.

Think at this stage I just need to find the 300w PSU with the correct cabling to connect with this v3.2, and maybe made to be external (there are PSU with a own "enclosure" such as the 120w power adapter they are proposing?)

I have anyway some concern. The website state

"PE4H V3.2 design for engineering test. NOT for home or office use.

....

Almost PCIe 16x video card can’t get enough memory resource are allocated. Can’t work in your laptop."

Does somebody already tested it?

Any desktop ATX or SFX PSU will connect to the PE4H 3.2. The big white connector block on the circuit board is the standard 24 pin power connector that which you'd normally plug into the motherboard. For a 650ti, you should be just about OK running off a 120w laptop power adaptor as they describe, but you'd be on the limit of its capability.

You'll see that they also claim that PCIe 16x video cards don't work with a PE4L - that's just them covering themselves. For a number of laptops there's a bunch of extra work needed (software-wise) to make them work. For Lenovo 220, 420, 520, there is no problem as long as you use the latest bios and don't use more than 8GB RAM.

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About this 1.1Opt may I ask you what exactly is? A sw version, a benchmark?

I can't find a single Shuttle XPC case, what model are you using?

"1.1Opt" or "1.2Opt" refers to PCI compression through the Nvidia Optimus.

It's not really "software" per se, but rather the method that the Nvidia GPU sends video data to the laptop. 1.1Opt provides less performance than 1.2Opt.

The Shuttle XPC case I'm using is a very old one. The precise model number is the Shuttle XPC SN95G5. I just used the case, as you can see in the photos I uploaded. It's larger than the mini ITX style case, but due to its larger dimensions I'm able to stack stuff on top of it easily and safely.

Before I started using the SHuttle case, I was literally using a (New Balance) shoebox.

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Absolutely. In fact I said exactly the same several times in this thread, but obviously not loudly enough:

The graphics card compatability issue is that you need one with the PCI express power on the end rather than on the top. See the spec here, which means you need a card like this one.

Any desktop ATX or SFX PSU will connect to the PE4H 3.2. The big white connector block on the circuit board is the standard 24 pin power connector that which you'd normally plug into the motherboard. For a 650ti, you should be just about OK running off a 120w laptop power adaptor as they describe, but you'd be on the limit of its capability.

You'll see that they also claim that PCIe 16x video cards don't work with a PE4L - that's just them covering themselves. For a number of laptops there's a bunch of extra work needed (software-wise) to make them work. For Lenovo 220, 420, 520, there is no problem as long as you use the latest bios and don't use more than 8GB RAM.

I'm sorry about PE4H but simply I wasn't understanding the various aspects of the eGPU enough to integrate your suggestion in to the picture.

About the power I can't find a way to find on synthetic GPU specs (such as this one GeForce GTX 650 Ti specifications) where the connector is positioned: need I to search the pictures/tech diagram of any card version I'm interested on?

I think to be sure will buy a 300w PSU, but I'm lost on the sea of offers. Can you suggest a specific model?

I was also making some expense forecast

PE4H V3.2 170+28=198 USD

PSU 65 USD

Tot 263 USD

Do you think it's accurate?

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"1.1Opt" or "1.2Opt" refers to PCI compression through the Nvidia Optimus.

It's not really "software" per se, but rather the method that the Nvidia GPU sends video data to the laptop. 1.1Opt provides less performance than 1.2Opt.

The Shuttle XPC case I'm using is a very old one. The precise model number is the Shuttle XPC SN95G5. I just used the case, as you can see in the photos I uploaded. It's larger than the mini ITX style case, but due to its larger dimensions I'm able to stack stuff on top of it easily and safely.

Before I started using the SHuttle case, I was literally using a (New Balance) shoebox.

Thanks. I was searching about Optimus but can't find any reference to 1.1 or 1.2, what does it mean? A spec of the architecture, a specific sw conf? Can you give me some hint?

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Thanks but I sure does not have the skills to do something similar.

It is really not tricky, I just bought a project box from Maplins for £5 and drilled holes in the appropriate places. The wiring for the power supply is not tricky at all.

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Thanks. I was searching about Optimus but can't find any reference to 1.1 or 1.2, what does it mean? A spec of the architecture, a specific sw conf? Can you give me some hint?

Think of it kind of like "how much PCI compression you get" out of Optimus.

So 1.1Opt is basically "PCI-E 1.1x16 @ 1 1.1", meaning that you are getting PCI-E 1.1 support. You'll still get very good performance from the GPU, but you're not getting everything out of your GPU.

1.2Opt is something like "PCI-E 2.0x16 @ 1 2.0" (I can't remember exactly the numbers), which means it's using more compression through Optmius thus providing more performance.

It sounds like you're still a little bit confused about how the eGPU setup works. Basically, if you are considering doing an eGPU setup, you will need at least 3 components:

*Power supply (PSU)

*graphics card (GPU)

*PE4L and one of the below--

**EC___a adapter (if you have an ExpressCard slot on your laptop, then get this)

**PM___a adapter (if you have only a mini PCI-E slot in the underside of your laptop, then get this)

The way the eGPU is physically setup, is like below:

1. Plug the GPU into the PE4L board

2. Plug the power supply into the GPU (if necessary, this depends on the GPU itself)

3. Plug the power supply into the PE4L board (required)

4. Plug the power supply into the PE4L SWEX power switch board (required, SWEX board comes with PE4L package)

5. Plug the PM___a/EC___a adapter into the laptop

The rest of the setup is software. You might need tinker a bit to get everything to work just right, but essentially this is all that is necessary. This method is basically the most user-friendly. Everything fits together like LEGO, so it's hard to go wrong. As well, although this seems like a relatively daunting DIY project, it is really quite safe. You cannot do any major physical damage to your laptop with the eGPU kit (the only physical damage you can do is potentially damage your mini PCI-E port in your laptop), as really it's all mostly a software thing. You may have seen the name "Setup 1.x" throughout this eGPU sub-forum, this is software used to disable some built-in GPUs in laptops, as well as do some special PCI compaction in order to make room for an eGPU. Since you have a X220, you definitely don't need Setup 1.x, in case you were wondering.

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Think of it kind of like "how much PCI compression you get" out of Optimus.

So 1.1Opt is basically "PCI-E 1.1x16 @ 1 1.1", meaning that you are getting PCI-E 1.1 support. You'll still get very good performance from the GPU, but you're not getting everything out of your GPU.

1.2Opt is something like "PCI-E 2.0x16 @ 1 2.0" (I can't remember exactly the numbers), which means it's using more compression through Optmius thus providing more performance.

Not quite. Firstly I'll explain what the non-Opt means:

1.1 Means it's the same bandwidth as 1st generation PCIe x1 (PCIe 1.0a x1 or the equivalent PCIe 1.1 x1).

1.2 Means it's the same bandwidth as 2nd generation PCIe x1 (PCIe 2.0 x1). This is twice the bandwith of PCIe 1.1 x1.

The Opt means nVidia's optimus compression. This is detailed in the first post in Nando's DIY eGPU Experiences. Basically you get data compression between the CPU and GPU so get more performance out of the available bandwidth

You may notice that a typical desktop uses an x16 graphics card slot for 16 times the bandwidth of the descriptions above. You'd think that this is a major problem. It's not (or at least not if you're not using the absolute top-end graphics cards). Sure - eGPU is bandwidth-limited, but at PCIe 2.0 x1 with Optimus compression, it's not bandwidth starved. Your X220 with an nVidia GPU gives you the best non-thunderbolt solution right now (especially if you intend to use the laptop display).

It sounds like you're still a little bit confused about how the eGPU setup works. Basically, if you are considering doing an eGPU setup, you will need at least 3 components:

*Power supply (PSU)

*graphics card (GPU)

*PE4L and one of the below--

**EC___a adapter (if you have an ExpressCard slot on your laptop, then get this)

**PM___a adapter (if you have only a mini PCI-E slot in the underside of your laptop, then get this)

With a Lenovo X220, you should only consider EC (expresscard) connection. This is PCIe 2.0 compatible and by far the most straightforward way of setting up. Note that a PE4H 3.2 EC060A is equivalent.

About the power I can't find a way to find on synthetic GPU specs (such as this one GeForce GTX 650 Ti specifications) where the connector is positioned: need I to search the pictures/tech diagram of any card version I'm interested on?

Yep - you'd need to google image search or similar for any card you're interested in :(

I think to be sure will buy a 300w PSU, but I'm lost on the sea of offers. Can you suggest a specific model?

Given the deal I found, I'd pick up a XFX 450W Pro Core at around £35. Yes you only need 300W, but I couldn't find better for the price.

I was also making some expense forecast

PE4H V3.2 170+28=198 USD

PSU 65 USD

Tot 263 USD

Don't forget to add on the graphics card. You're probably talking about 400USD all-in, given you don't any parts lying around and want a pre-built enclosure.

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Not quite. Firstly I'll explain what the non-Opt means:

1.1 Means it's the same bandwidth as 1st generation PCIe x1 (PCIe 1.0a x1 or the equivalent PCIe 1.1 x1).

1.2 Means it's the same bandwidth as 2nd generation PCIe x1 (PCIe 2.0 x1). This is twice the bandwith of PCIe 1.1 x1.

The Opt means nVidia's optimus compression. This is detailed in the first post in Nando's DIY eGPU Experiences. Basically you get data compression between the CPU and GPU so get more performance out of the available bandwidth

I was trying to keep it real simple. If one doesn't understand how PCI Express works, less words and numbers are usually easier to understand :)

@davide445, don't think about the cost as being that high.

My eGPU setup, altogether, cost me about $300 CAD after taxes and shipping. You just have to find a good deal on the individual pieces. I got both my GPU and PSU on sale.

GPU: < $150

PSU: < $50

PE4H: $100 ($91 + shipping)

Shuttle XPC case: Free, got it off local Craigslist

You don't need an all-powerful GPU, unless you demand the most in your games, and you don't need a super fancy PSU with Bronze/Silver quality qualifications and guaranteed 12V1/12V2 rail outputs. Any standard 400W PSU will suffice (so long as you double check that the 12V rail outputs at least 12amps), and any GPU will be just fine. Just find a GPU that meets your performance expectations (e.g. if you want great performance, look at a GTX 670 or 7870 and higher; if you want to just get an improvement over buiilt-in GPU performance, look at a GTX 660 or 7770 and higher).

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Need to be honest: this morning I was thinking to giving up, after discovering I need also to pay VAT and customs tariff for a extra-EU adapter purchase.

But after receiving your new info and reading again about ExpressCard, PCIe, my laptop and so on I think I have put together the most important things.

I won't consider GPU costs (will be GTX 660 if I can find one for less than 200 USD), that's invariant in my choice, I want only to know which of the following options can be the good one.

Starting from my laptop: checked I have a PCIe 2.0 1x 5GBs max Intel 6 series Sandy Bridge ExpressCard interface.

These are the options (rounding costs, but including shipment, VAT and duties from dutycalculator.com, I consider apart the GPU, assume I don't need any other part if not listed):

PE4L V2.1: 110 USD

Case SilverStone SG05 with 300w PSU: 147 USD

Tot: 257 USD

PE4H V3.2 (with his case): 234 USD

PSU XFX ProSeries 450W: 62 USD

TOT: 296 USD

ViDock 4 overdrive 200w: 318 USD

Tot: 318 USD

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First up, apologies as I'm not familiar with how VAT and duties are added to the total (I know how VAT works, but beyond that I'm clueless). Is there a specific website you will be ordering the PSU/case from? Just wondering, so that I could peruse the site and see if I could come up with some alternative choices (help save a few bucks if possible :) )

Now, I personally think that the PE4L is the better package only in the sense it's cheaper (more bang for your buck) and that you have the flexibility of a custom case to fit your GPU and PSU. While the PE4H 3.2 is great in that it comes with a case already, it's entirely possible that the GTX 660 that you intend to purchase is too thick (thanks to the cooling fins and fans) for the PE4H case. I'm just worried about extraneous factors which you cannot control, and won't know about until it's too late!

I'm not embarrassed to say it, but my first eGPU enclosure was a shoebox and bunch of popsicle sticks propping things upright. It worked marvelously until I got my hands on my current Shuttle enclosure. The only downside of a shoebox is that you cannot reliably stack heavy objects on top of it.

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it might be worth checking eBay for the PE4L. my PE4L was $80 shipped.

PE4L V2.1b + EC2C + 60cm Flat HDMI (EC-060A) GEN.2 PCI-E / PCI-E Slot Adapter | eBay

I live in England and I did not have to pay VAT. It came straight through customs no problem.

Apart costs and apart case, my final concern its if there are more sense for a PE4L or PE4H.

I read infinite debate but still I don't understood if it make for me any difference.

About customs: I really don't understood. I simply use the dutycalculator and accept the results: I need to pay VAT, not customs.

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Apart costs and apart case, my final concern its if there are more sense for a PE4L or PE4H.

I read infinite debate but still I don't understood if it make for me any difference.

If you ask me, it comes down to 2 factors:

1. Do you want to build a custom case later on?

2. Cost

Performance-wise, they should be identical. The only difference should be whether or not you want to spend time, effort, and money into building an enclosure for it. The PE4H takes care of that for you (if you buy the optional aluminum case with it).

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If you ask me, it comes down to 2 factors:

1. Do you want to build a custom case later on?

2. Cost

Performance-wise, they should be identical. The only difference should be whether or not you want to spend time, effort, and money into building an enclosure for it. The PE4H takes care of that for you (if you buy the optional aluminum case with it).

Ok that's the response I want.

Only another question: both of them come with all the cabling I need for? To connect with ExpressCard I'm sure (all the game is on that) but also to connect with PSU and SWEX if needed?

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I was trying to keep it real simple. If one doesn't understand how PCI Express works, less words and numbers are usually easier to understand :)

Very true, and I thank you for that. My objection was to the use of x16 as I firmly believe it shouldn't be used when describing _any_ PE4L or PE4H setup (even BPlus are guilty of this). The PE4L has an open ended x4 slot (wired as x1); the PE4H 2.4 has a x16 slot but can be connected at most as an x4 (and beyond x2 is hard); the PE4H 3.2 has a x16 slot but is hard-wired as x1.

Any mention of x16 suggests that you have something like the connector inside a regular PC and it's at best only physically the same connector.

You don't need an all-powerful GPU, unless you demand the most in your games, and you don't need a super fancy PSU with Bronze/Silver quality qualifications and guaranteed 12V1/12V2 rail outputs. Any standard 400W PSU will suffice (so long as you double check that the 12V rail outputs at least 12amps), and any GPU will be just fine. Just find a GPU that meets your performance expectations (e.g. if you want great performance, look at a GTX 670 or 7870 and higher; if you want to just get an improvement over buiilt-in GPU performance, look at a GTX 660 or 7770 and higher).

Especially as davide445 has already stated that his eGPU setup is not for gaming (I'm not sure whether there's anything to be gained from an eGPU for davide445's usage, but that's not my place to answer - I simply have no knowledge of the use case to make card suggestions).

That I don't find your nVidia/AMD pairing equivalent is irrelevant, but the choice should be nVidia-only if using the GPU to drive your laptop internal display. It's possible to use AMD, but there's more software setup to do.

I'd also suggest using any 250W and upwards PSU will work, I just won't recommend anything low end :)

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Apart costs and apart case, my final concern its if there are more sense for a PE4L or PE4H.

I read infinite debate but still I don't understood if it make for me any difference.

One other thing about the PE4H - don't get v2.4 for your usage (you can only get PCIe1.1 x1 with your setup, i.e. half the bandwidth of a PE4L). You choice should only be between a PE4H 3.2 if you want the enclosure it comes with or a PE4L-EC060A if you want any other enclosure)

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Ok that's the response I want.

Only another question: both of them come with all the cabling I need for? To connect with ExpressCard I'm sure (all the game is on that) but also to connect with PSU and SWEX if needed?

Both come with all the cabling you need. PSU has the cable to connect to the SWEX (in the PE4L case), there is no SWEX for a PE4H v3.2

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Ok that's the response I want.

Only another question: both of them come with all the cabling I need for? To connect with ExpressCard I'm sure (all the game is on that) but also to connect with PSU and SWEX if needed?

Yes, buying an eGPU kit will come with the following components:

*"PCI board" - the board that the PCI card will plug into

*SWEX switch - a separate board that accepts the PSU's 24-pin plug, and a physical switch to turn the eGPU kit on/off

*ExpressCard adapter - this plugs into your Lenovo

*data cable - connects the "PCI board" and the ExpressCard adapter

Now, the thing to note is that the PCI board, data cable, and ExpressCard adapter are all soldered together into a single piece. The only piece that is physically separate is the SWEX board.

Very true, and I thank you for that. My objection was to the use of x16 as I firmly believe it shouldn't be used when describing _any_ PE4L or PE4H setup (even BPlus are guilty of this). The PE4L has an open ended x1 slot; the PE4H 2.4 has a x16 slot but can be connected at most as an x4 (and beyond x2 is hard); the PE4H 3.2 has a x16 slot but is hard-wired as x1.

Any mention of x16 suggests that you have something like the connector inside a regular PC and it's at best only physically the same connector.

No, you are correct. However, monitoring software such as GPU-Z report that it's x16. I only used the full spec as reported by GPU-Z, because almost all software likely reports the same thing.

Especially as davide445 has already stated that his eGPU setup is not for gaming (I'm not sure whether there's anything to be gained from an eGPU for davide445's usage, but that's not my place to answer - I simply have no knowledge of the use case to make card suggestions).

That I don't find your nVidia/AMD pairing equivalent is irrelevant, but the choice should be nVidia-only if using the GPU to drive your laptop internal display. It's possible to use AMD, but there's more software setup to do.

I'd also suggest using any 250W and upwards PSU will work, I just won't recommend anything low end :)

Again, you're right, but I was making assumptions that he might be using the eGPU for video converting or CUDA crunching. Like you said, there's absolutely no need for an eGPU kit if you're not going to play games or run GPU-based data crunching.

I only added AMD GPUs to the list as they are cheaper than their Nvidia counterparts; as well, AMD GPUs are much more abundant and you can get something like a 6450 for $25 here in Canada.

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The problem with AMD GPUs is that if you want to use internal LCD then you have to add in the cost of Virtu, also you loose the PCIe Compression.

Also I have no problems running the 650Ti using the 203W xbox psu, but then again that might be higher quality than some of the cheapo stuff.

I personally don't see the advantage of the PE4H over PE4L.

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Also I have no problems running the 650Ti using the 203W xbox psu, but then again that might be higher quality than some of the cheapo stuff.

It's probably of higher quality than the xbox itself :) I've had one RRoD, my brother's had 2, you hear of many more. How many failed xbox PSUs have been reported?

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It's probably of higher quality than the xbox itself :) I've had one RRoD, my brother's had 2, you hear of many more. How many failed xbox PSUs have been reported?

I've never had a 360 myself, always been a PC gamer (well I had a Original XBOX but that's it). Know lots of people who's original 360's RRoD'd, which is probably why the 203W PSUs are so abundant (I got mine for £15).

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I've never had a 360 myself, always been a PC gamer (well I had a Original XBOX but that's it). Know lots of people who's original 360's RRoD'd, which is probably why the 203W PSUs are so abundant (I got mine for £15).

If I were doing my setup from scratch, I'd probably use the xbox PSU I have laying around, with a smaller enclosure (but I happened to have a decent ATX PSU spare and a 560ti448 is 210W TDP). The issue in this thread is that the OP wants plug-n-play and not to mess around with a soldering iron and a dremel (can't think why not - that's half the fun :) ) - that's pretty much the only motivation for a PE4H v3.2 and comes with extra cost and card limitations.

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I don't recommend the Xbox 360 power brick simply because it requires DIY work. A desktop PSU is much more out of the box, and significantly less daunting to a user who is not familiar with modifying hardware. Not to mention that if the PSU fails while under warranty, it's as easy as unscrewing and unplugging it from the eGPU system, packaging it up and shipping out to the manufacturer for RMA.

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Again, you're right, but I was making assumptions that he might be using the eGPU for video converting or CUDA crunching. Like you said, there's absolutely no need for an eGPU kit if you're not going to play games or run GPU-based data crunching.

I only added AMD GPUs to the list as they are cheaper than their Nvidia counterparts; as well, AMD GPUs are much more abundant and you can get something like a 6450 for $25 here in Canada.

I will use eGPU to speed my landscape design under CryEngine SDK for environment impact analysis such as this one VisAsim with a radical new kind of wind turbine generator.

I will also probably do 3d video (BD 3D quality) editing and rendering, and it's possible I will do CUDA calc for option pricing in the future.

The main aim to eGPU it's now to speed my learning time on CryEngine and the needed tools such as Google Sketchup and maybe 3dmax: I will do simple things but with my HD 3000 everything will be painfully slow, and I prefer to learn doing things instead of learning only. I also think will be a good investment for the future: I want to learn and experiment more on 3D and also my present GPU will really limit the opportunity to learn.

But if you think eGPU it's still a money waste for me and there are better solutions, as you know I'm not an expert, please give me a hint!

About Nvidia/AMD no bias: I simply read many times Nvidia it's easier to setup, and will pay $25 more for that.

Will use a external 17" display I already have so to have more space respect my 12.5" and optimize performance.

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If I were doing my setup from scratch, I'd probably use the xbox PSU I have laying around, with a smaller enclosure (but I happened to have a decent ATX PSU spare and a 560ti448 is 210W TDP). The issue in this thread is that the OP wants plug-n-play and not to mess around with a soldering iron and a dremel (can't think why not - that's half the fun :) ) - that's pretty much the only motivation for a PE4H v3.2 and comes with extra cost and card limitations.

I have a long time unused Xbox 1.6, but I just checked today and mount a 130w PSU, too small for my needs.

Anyway as you said I will go directly to the objective: have the eGPU working with no hw setup (not my best skill I think) and start the real fun using it :).

I so hope reading all your posts that PE4L also doesn't need soldering iron and dremel :). I can deal to live without enclosure to have the best cost/result, but want not to deal with soldering at al!

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I so hope reading all your posts that PE4L also doesn't need soldering iron and dremel :). I can deal to live without enclosure to have the best cost/result, but want not to deal with soldering at al!

No need for a soldering iron or dremel :) that's only for an xbox psu (or similar) and custom enclosure respectively.

btw - I scared myself soldering the other day: I fried a fuse on the motherboard of my T420 doing a screen upgrade - and managed the repair! But can understand how daunting it can be.

I think all the advice here sums up to: "Get a PE4L, PSU and graphics card of your choice and figure out an enclosure somewhere along the line" - but then we knew that already :)

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No need for a soldering iron or dremel :) that's only for an xbox psu (or similar) and custom enclosure respectively.

btw - I scared myself soldering the other day: I fried a fuse on the motherboard of my T420 doing a screen upgrade - and managed the repair! But can understand how daunting it can be.

I think all the advice here sums up to: "Get a PE4L, PSU and graphics card of your choice and figure out an enclosure somewhere along the line" - but then we knew that already :)

Yes now it's absolutely clear. If you haven't other suggestion for cheap but good commercial PSU I now know exactly what to buy, thanks your all!

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