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lenovo T61: secondary GPU up and running (HD 7750), 3DMark06


miro_gt

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lots of modifications took place as to manage the fitting of the PowerColor HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 into the advanced dock, and to deal with the overheating issues due to the small space, but I consider the project done since last night as temperatures topped out at ~87 deg C in a 22 deg C room at full continues load, i.e. me playing Blacklight Retribution at 1024x768 with all on high except textures that were on medium. The game (free on steam) is playable but still slows down here and there.

overall very happy with the result, considering the limitations of physical space, power consumption, BIOS issues, and the x1 PCIe link.

here's my first run, with temp monitoring software running on the laptop screen using its own nVidia GPU:

NVIDIA Quadro NVS video card benchmark result - Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T9500,LENOVO 8891CTO score: 11179 3DMarks

gpu-z screenshot:

http://oi50.tinypic.com/e6t9at.jpg

... kinda fun to see the only one system (mine) that tops the chart right there being twice as fast as the second place systems, lol.

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lots of modifications took place as to manage the fitting of the PowerColor HD 7750 1GB GDDR5 into the advanced dock, and to deal with the overheating issues due to the small space, but I consider the project done since last night as temperatures topped out at ~87 deg C in a 22 deg C room at full continues load, i.e. me playing Blacklight Retribution at 1024x768 with all on high except textures that were on medium. The game (free on steam) is playable but still slows down here and there.

overall very happy with the result, considering the limitations of physical space, power consumption, BIOS issues, and the x1 PCIe link.

here's my first run, with temp monitoring software running on the laptop screen using its own nVidia GPU:

NVIDIA Quadro NVS video card benchmark result - Intel Core 2 Duo Processor T9500,LENOVO 8891CTO score: 11179 3DMarks

gpu-z screenshot:

http://oi50.tinypic.com/e6t9at.jpg

... kinda fun to see the only one system (mine) that tops the chart right there being twice as fast as the second place systems, lol.

Great mod there. You note the dips in performance here and there. There are two solutions I can present to deal with that, netting noticeably better performance out of your HD7750:

<strike>1. Since the dock is using port5, you can use the Setup 1.x software to switch that port into x1E mode and see 15-30% better performance. The theory is that older Intel IO chipsets such as your ICH8M only negotiate a half-duplex link with a AMD card. Running x1E appears to fix the problem and get full duplex performance.</strike> <-- miro_gt correctly confirms below this won't work since LAN is wired to port6.

2. Use the DIY eGPU hardware to do a 2 mPCIe x2E configuration using port1 (WWAN) and port2 (wifi).

REF: http://forum.techinferno.com/diy-e-gpu-projects/2504-diy-egpu-x2-lenovo-t61-possible-help-3.html#post36334

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x1E wont happen as my LAN is on port 6, or at least that's what it says on the schematics (I haven't checked it).

as far as the x2 setup - I think falcontx didn't have success, but would have been nice if it worked :D I may look into that later.

I had to overcome lots of overheating issues and ended up taking out the cards own fan as to free passage for airflow (the dock has its own fan in the bay), as well as the plastic cover that it had over the heatsink. Works out great :D

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well there's something seriously wrong with the setup. While benchmark scores are great, FPS is not :( - I've tried two games so far and both perform worse than my internal GPU which is over 5 times slower than this. I'm assuming the bus is to blame for this, as my internal is connected at x16.

makes me think that the bus is of great importance, despite benchmark scores. For example, maybe lenovo T420s with its nVidia 4200m connected at x16 would give more FPS than lenovo T430s with its nVidia 5200m connected at x8. (source notebookcheck gpu-z screenshots).

oh well..

EDIT: apparently I'm not the first person to figure that out:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/e-gpu-external-graphics-discussion/418851-diy-egpu-experiences-134.html#post6582485

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well there's something seriously wrong with the setup. While benchmark scores are great, FPS is not :( - I've tried two games so far and both perform worse than my internal GPU which is over 5 times slower than this. I'm assuming the bus is to blame for this, as my internal is connected at x16.

makes me think that the bus is of great importance, despite benchmark scores. For example, maybe lenovo T420s with its nVidia 4200m connected at x16 would give more FPS than lenovo T430s with its nVidia 5200m connected at x8. (source notebookcheck gpu-z screenshots).

oh well..

EDIT: apparently I'm not the first person to figure that out:

DIY eGPU experiences - Page 134

Yes, x1 1.0 on an older Intel chipset with an AMD card gives a choppy/stuttering gaming experience. REF: Kizwan's HD5870@x2 and x1 game benchmarks.

You really need at least x1E mode to see things improve. Not sure if switching the LAN card from D0->D3 state would then allow it to not act as a second lane if you switched port5 into x2 mode. Certainly finding the power pin on lan and cutting it would take it off the pci-e bus. Or else x2E mode using the 2x mPCIe slots + DIY eGPU PE4H 2.4a hardware is the other performance fix.

The aforementioned Lenovo T420s/T430s have four+ performance benefits for eGPU implementation over your T61. This makes the gaming experience considerably better than either the onboard iGPU or the NVS4200M/NVS5400M dGPU options Lenovo provide.

1. a much faster CPU

2. a pci-e 2.0 expresscard/mPCIe slot giving double the bandwidth over your pci-e 1.1x one

3. negotiate a full duplex link with a AMD card, again giving ~ double the bandwidth

4. Have an Intel HD3000/4000 iGPU. NVidia's Optimus driver then engaging pci-e compression on a x1 link AND allows a transparent internal LCD mode. If using an AMD card, the iGPU allows use of LucidLogix Virtu to render the image using the eGPU but display it on the internal LCD.

5. i7 T430s has a Thunderbolt port. It's 10Gbps downlink giving slightly more than double the bandwidth of expresscard 2.0. Only problem there is the $180 BPlus TH05 has been recalled so cheapest eGPU enclosures then start at $320 (Sonnet Echo Express SE, OWC Helios). Those cannot host dual-width cards so would need to rip the internal board out and patch ATX power through. Also add $50 to purchase the Thunderbolt cable.

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what I realized is that bandwidth problems are quite big. Even Expresscard 2.0 giving double the rate or Expresscard 1.0 - the bandwidth is hardly comparable to what current internal GPUs are using (PCIe 2.0 @ x8 or x16), i.e. 8 to 16 times faster than Expresscard 2, which is 16 to 32 times faster than what I got here as external.

at this point it doesn't make sense for me to try anything else with eGPU unless there's thunderbolt port available, and even then I would be skeptical as this would about equal PCIe 2.0 @ x2, so to get the performance the driver HAS to use good compression to pass through the link.

what is needed is a link that is like 4 times faster than thunderbolt, lol.

Dang, the truth hits hard.

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what I realized is that bandwidth problems are quite big. Even Expresscard 2.0 giving double the rate or Expresscard 1.0 - the bandwidth is hardly comparable to what current internal GPUs are using (PCIe 2.0 @ x8 or x16), i.e. 8 to 16 times faster than Expresscard 2, which is 16 to 32 times faster than what I got here as external.

at this point it doesn't make sense for me to try anything else with eGPU unless there's thunderbolt port available, and even then I would be skeptical as this would about equal PCIe 2.0 @ x2, so to get the performance the driver HAS to use good compression to pass through the link.

what is needed is a link that is like 4 times faster than thunderbolt, lol.

Dang, the truth hits hard.

x4 2.0 is what is needed to get ~95% of desktop levels with an AMD card. Unfortunately 2011-2013 Thunderbolt has been gimped to 10Gbps (~x2 2.0) even though the channel is 20Gbps capable. I believe Intel tried to get manufacturer buy in by packaging Thunderbolt+mDP together. They've allocated the 2nd 10Gbps channel to mDP. With a more clever design they could have used the full 20Gbps channel by multiplexing pci-e or pci-e+mDP or mDP.

2014 Thunderbolt will get 20Gbps where we will see near desktop GPU bandwidth. Again there, they will have a 40Gbps channel to play with. Should Intel be reading this consider my above statement about multiplexing the data rather than hard allocating channels *if* you want to provide a legitimate external pci-e interface on notebooks. 40Gbps would give us x8 2.0 to play with :)

Saying that, there are many eGPU users that have been satisfied with x1.1Opt, x1.2Opt and now x2 2.0/10Gbps TBT performance. They all see considerably more bandwidth than your rig is getting. The handshaking issue b/w older Intel chipsets such as yours and AMD cards sees you getting half-duplex x1.1 performance. A x1.1Opt configuration gets full duplex (x2) + pci-e compression that accelerates mostly DX9 up to 300%. Unfortunately your system doesn't meet the 4500MHD or newer iGPU criteria to run a x1.1Opt configuration. Only salvation on your system is to do a x1E, x2, or x2E implementation as discussed in my previous posts.

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  • 10 months later...
The laptop T61p is possible to do x1E.

I have x1E in my T61p and it works.

Port 6 only works if the network card is in the 1 Gb/s. If no, port 6 is free.

Sorry for my english. I'm using Google Translator.

Thank you for expanding on this. Can you elaborate on "port 6 only works if the network card is in the 1 Gb/s. If no, port 6 is free". I am not sure what the "1 Gb/s" is referring to.

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@bartolomej_2006 , that's a great find. A way of in essence disconnecting a port that would otherwise interfere with x1E mode.

Can you advise if there is a performance difference between x1 and x1E (x2 only with only 1 port attached) with your GTX650Ti? I recall seeing quite a difference on AMD and older NVidia cards but very little, if any difference with Fermi or newer cards.

Best tests to run being 3dmark06 and RE5-dx9-1280x800-fixed benchmarks for both and comparing.

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TESTS

Lenovo T61p

CPU: T7500 [email protected] GHz dual IDA

MEMORY: 2x2GB 5-5-5-15

HDD: SSD 128GB OCZ Agilty 3 SATA 2

BIOS: middleton 2.29

dGPU: (quadro FX 570m 256mb) -disabled

eGPU:Geforce GTX650 Ti 1024mb gpu=928MHz mem=2700MHz(DDR 5400)

Driver: nvlddmkm 9.18.13.3165(ForceWare 331.65) / Win7 64bit

SYSTEM Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

ThinkPad Advanced Dock (2503)

CUDA-Z

screen: http://imageshack.us/a/img30/9941/svy5.jpg

post-19659-14494996762298_thumb.jpg

Resident Evil 5

screen: http://imageshack.us/a/img9/7910/n1zq.jpg

post-19659-14494996762512_thumb.jpg

3DMark06

post-19659-14494996763497_thumb.jpg

Devil May Cry 4

DX9

Setup: default

post-19659-14494996763691_thumb.jpg

DX10

Setup: default

post-19659-14494996764048_thumb.jpg

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TESTS

Lenovo T61p

CPU: T7500 [email protected] GHz dual IDA

MEMORY: 2x2GB 5-5-5-15

HDD: SSD 128GB OCZ Agilty 3 SATA 2

BIOS: middleton 2.29

dGPU: (quadro FX 570m 256mb) -disabled

eGPU:Geforce GTX650 Ti 1024mb gpu=928MHz mem=2700MHz(DDR 5400)

Driver: nvlddmkm 9.18.13.3165(ForceWare 331.65) / Win7 64bit

SYSTEM Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit

ThinkPad Advanced Dock (2503)

Wow! Indeed we are seeing better performance on x1E with your GTX650Ti on the 965PM chipset. Your method to activate it through disengagement of port 6 by setting it to a non-1Gbps setting being an ingenious first.

Would you mind doing a full implementation writeup utilizing the existing pictures/data you've posted? What be helpful would be full benchmarks as shown in the so yours would be the first T61 running a GTX650Ti@x1E.

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Would you mind doing a full implementation writeup utilizing the existing pictures/data you've posted? What be helpful would be full benchmarks as shown in the so yours would be the first T61 running a GTX650Ti@x1E.

I do not understand this sentence. Google Translator is not good. :)

Wow! Indeed we are seeing better performance on x1E with your GTX650Ti on the 965PM chipset. Your method to activate it through disengagement of port 6 by setting it to a non-1Gbps setting being an ingenious first.

It was not my idea. I read it in the "intel ICH8 Family Datasheet". Link: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc/datasheet/intel-io-controller-hub-8-datasheet.pdf

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