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The reason actually is not a 150W power limit, in fact the CPU can draw as much power as it wants, even 200W when you use a bigger PSU, the only issue is that the GPU voltage supply seems to loose stability when the CPU draws a lot of power - even though the PSU is not at its limit. I think this is due to the circuit design on the mobo, somehow the CPU power supply leeches voltage from the GPU power supply circuits, at least it seems so.

If you want to overclock CPU and GPU you simply need to find a sweet spot so that you get the optimal performance, this will be differently with each application.

Svl7, Thank you for the clarification : )

I agree that even with 920+7970, the PSU may still below 150w.

But, it can't explain the fact that with 920 and 7970 both @ default setting, the GPU score hit 5639 which is normal, the physical score is only 4858, when running 3d mark 11.

I've run the test several times, the result remains the same - GPU gets its normal score, but CPU score drops a lot.

Based on ur theory, the result should be reverse - CPU gets normal score which is 5200-5500, GPU score may drop as the insufficient power.

Any idea on this?

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the 920XM can get 8K in an M17x R2 since its not starved for power.

ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-950 Processor,Alienware score: P6038 3DMarks 75mv added to cpu

ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-950 Processor,Alienware score: P6018 3DMarks 0mv added to cpu

http://forum.techinferno.com/alienware-m17x/133-official-m17x-r2-benchmarking-thread-4.html#post1948

what are your TDP and TDC set to? SVL7 is right... you need to find a balance you will need to try variations to see what improves the cpu score without dropping gpu...

heat can drop physics, what you set your voltage on the cpu to will effect it, and the amps/watts (tdp/tdc)

i would use no added volts to the 920XM and check my post for how I set the cpu... you will need less than those settings...but you could work down from there....

SVL7 and Stamatis may have a good suggestion for TDP/TDC or just use less than I set there...

one thing that helped me was using a large increase to my baseclock... on my 920XM I had... it had the effect of running higher frequencies with less volts like the bench there 0mv @ 3558Mhz

of course I forced the fans on full to stay cool enough so that temps stay cool from start. so to not have temps rise high and then fans kick in...

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the 920XM can get 8K in an M17x R2 since its not starved for power.

ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-950 Processor,Alienware score: P6038 3DMarks 75mv added to cpu

ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-950 Processor,Alienware score: P6018 3DMarks 0mv added to cpu

http://forum.techinferno.com/alienware-m17x/133-official-m17x-r2-benchmarking-thread-4.html#post1948

what are your TDP and TDC set to? SVL7 is right... you need to find a balance you will need to try variations to see what improves the cpu score without dropping gpu...

heat can drop physics, what you set your voltage on the cpu to will effect it, and the amps/watts (tdp/tdc)

i would use no added volts to the 920XM and check my post for how I set the cpu... you will need less than those settings...but you could work down from there....

SVL7 and Stamatis may have a good suggestion for TDP/TDC or just use less than I set there...

one thing that helped me was using a large increase to my baseclock... on my 920XM I had... it had the effect of running higher frequencies with less volts like the bench there 0mv @ 3558Mhz

of course I forced the fans on full to stay cool enough so that temps stay cool from start. so to not have temps rise high and then fans kick in...

I see. Actually, I've tried to do the test which is to gradually increase the TDP/TDC/clocks to find how much more CPU score can be improved without dropping GPU.

The default set of 920(24.23.17.17/TDP/TDC @ 62) is absolutely ok with 7970m. No dropping. But bring about a low physical score of 4800+ in 3d mark 11

After several test, I find GPU won't be affected when CPU @ 24.23.19.19 /TDP/TDC @ 65. If any harder, GPU drops...this is a little frustrated I must say. Before upgrading, 920 can easily run @ 24.24.24.24/TDP/TDC @ 90w without dropping 5870m, though I realize huge power consumption difference between 5870 and 7970.

I'll try to do more test to find the sweet spot to maximum the performance of CPU and GPU. But I still have two questions:

1. Even for the default set of 920, the CPU is running a little bit low (only 4800), not normal right? It should be around 5200-5500. i'd like to know How to set the CPU voltage? I'm using Throttlestop to set the TDP/TDC. is changing voltage also possible with Throttlestop. could u give me a link of ur post about ur set of 920.

2. If it's not the PSU limit but the too much capability of CPU stretching power which causes unstable power give to GPU. do u think it possible to over clock GPU and CPU at the same time to improve GPU's power stretch capability within the total power limitation of 150w?

Thank you!

Edited by lthuiyi
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do u think it possible to over clock GPU and CPU at the same time to improve GPU's power stretch capability within the total power limitation of 150w?

I already tried to explain it in my previous post... there's no such thing as a 150W power limit! The CPU can draw as much power as it wants, with a 240W PSU you can crank up the CPU to 30x, no problem, even if it the total power draw of the system is almost 230W. The only limiting factor is that the GPU supply voltage drops as soon as the CPU draws a lot more than at stock. This effect can also be seen with a GTX 260m or a 5850m, it must have something to do with the circuit design of the supply voltages on the mobo,

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I already tried to explain it in my previous post... there's no such thing as a 150W power limit! The CPU can draw as much power as it wants, with a 240W PSU you can crank up the CPU to 30x, no problem, even if it the total power draw of the system is almost 230W. The only limiting factor is that the GPU supply voltage drops as soon as the CPU draws a lot more than at stock. This effect can also be seen with a GTX 260m or a 5850m, it must have something to do with the circuit design of the supply voltages on the mobo,

Ok, got it. so basically we can limit the TDP/TDC of 920xm by using Throttlestop, and that will give a stable power supply for 7970m, even to overclock, right?

Also, could u share your set of TDP/TDC for 920xm : )

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great how did you get that to work SVL7?

Ah, well... yes I think I can share this little secret ;) I installed the driver :P

Ok, got it. so basically we can limit the TDP/TDC of 920xm by using Throttlestop, and that will give a stable power supply for 7970m, even to overclock, right?

Also, could u share your set of TDP/TDC for 920xm : )

Yes, and the max possible TDP will depend on each application, some are more CPU intense than others... you'll need to find the sweet spot. For games like BF3 there's not much headroom.

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Ah, well... yes I think I can share this little secret ;) I installed the driver :P

Yes, and the max possible TDP will depend on each application, some are more CPU intense than others... you'll need to find the sweet spot. For games like BF3 there's not much headroom.

Got another question here...Is there any way to increase the default PSU of 150W? or is it confirmed that for M15x, u can never get more than 150w input as the BIOS limitation?

I understand now that the dropping has nothing to do with the default PSU. I'm asking this because if we can get more power, then we're able to limit CPU power consumption in a higher level, still not affecting GPU power input.

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I haven't had a M15x so I don't know the bios but if its like M17x it should be right in the bios for the cpu voltage. M17x used +0MV, +75Mv, +150Mv and SVL7 has pinmodded the 920XM itself to use maybe double or more than that so i dont knowmaybe it was 300mv!? that allowed for a 4ghz+ quad :)

I would just test what you can the above testing you did should lead you to the right TDP/TDC... because we wont be able to give you a good estimate without using the system of yours in the way you plan to utilize it... test like you did above... maybe allowing a slight higher amp may help as 2900XM responds well to an increase there even over the watt limit. so your example 65watt/amp worked good... what happens at 70watt/75amp 70watt/80amp 75watt/80amp 75watt/85amp etc see if varying those helps... the 7970M draws so much power you may need to give the cpu more of one of those than when you had the 5870. see what happens when you vary a few of those and note if one improves the cpu score... btw 3dmark11 is fine for the testing but for most purposes you might as well stick to the same multis accross the board so all same as 4 core till you hone in on your sweet spot.

keep in mind the higher the multi the higher the VID the cpu could(not in all circumstances... but something is holding your setup back) use so more amps/watts and lets say your priority is 8thread... single and dual core multis set higher will cause the vid to be higher when in those larger multis and could draw more than the quad core by some chance... hypothetical 24/22/19/19 may see a higher vid more often and the vid does add heat/watt/amp draw even though small especially a light/medium single/dual core load or even a heavy one... 24/22/19/19 may not work but maybe going 20/20/20/20 would be getting you a little closer?

you dont have to change the way your doing things though. either way as the way you tested above is a good way to find what you are looking for. The more you monitor and see how it performs from change to change will help you quickly come to a fair balance.

Edited by mw86

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I haven't had a M15x so I don't know the bios but if its like M17x it should be right in the bios for the cpu voltage. M17x used +0MV, +75Mv, +150Mv and SVL7 has pinmodded the 920XM itself to use maybe double or more than that so i dont knowmaybe it was 300mv!? that allowed for a 4ghz+ quad :)

I would just test what you can the above testing you did should lead you to the right TDP/TDC... because we wont be able to give you a good estimate without using the system of yours in the way you plan to utilize it... test like you did above... maybe allowing a slight higher amp may help as 2900XM responds well to an increase there even over the watt limit. so your example 65watt/amp worked good... what happens at 70watt/75amp 70watt/80amp 75watt/80amp 75watt/85amp etc see if varying those helps... the 7970M draws so much power you may need to give the cpu more of one of those than when you had the 5870. see what happens when you vary a few of those and note if one improves the cpu score... btw 3dmark11 is fine for the testing but for most purposes you might as well stick to the same multis accross the board so all same as 4 core till you hone in on your sweet spot.

keep in mind the higher the multi the higher the VID the cpu could(not in all circumstances... but something is holding your setup back) use so more amps/watts and lets say your priority is 8thread... single and dual core multis set higher will cause the vid to be higher when in those larger multis and could draw more than the quad core by some chance... hypothetical 24/22/19/19 may see a higher vid more often and the vid does add heat/watt/amp draw even though small especially a light/medium single/dual core load or even a heavy one... 24/22/19/19 may not work but maybe going 20/20/20/20 would be getting you a little closer?

you dont have to change the way your doing things though. either way as the way you tested above is a good way to find what you are looking for. The more you monitor and see how it performs from change to change will help you quickly come to a fair balance.

Thank you mw86!! I really appreciate for so much detailed explanation. I'll continue my test to find the sweet spot. Thank you again : )

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I haven't had a M15x so I don't know the bios but if its like M17x it should be right in the bios for the cpu voltage. M17x used +0MV, +75Mv, +150Mv and SVL7 has pinmodded the 920XM itself to use maybe double or more than that so i dont knowmaybe it was 300mv!? that allowed for a 4ghz+ quad :)

No such option in the M15x BIOS. And it was about 350mV ;)

Got another question here...Is there any way to increase the default PSU of 150W? or is it confirmed that for M15x, u can never get more than 150w input as the BIOS limitation?

As I already tried to explain twice... there's no such thing as a power input limitation. Else I wouldn't have been able to crank up my CPU 30x multi on all cores and more. Such overclocks easily use more than 150W on the CPU alone, plus the rest of the system needs power as well. The only limitation seems to be in the power supply circuits which provide the voltage for the GPU. Nothing you can do about, unless you get the schematics of the mobo and try to figure out a solution.

The 240W PSU works, but it's not really a benefit due to the GPU limitations. The stock PSU can easily handle about 180W, my stock M15x adapter trips when it draws about 195-200W.

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No such option in the M15x BIOS. And it was about 350mV ;)

I under estimated your pinmodding :) nice we get +386mv at 99flex :) so hats off to that thats crazy on a 920XM... plus you can probably use the full +350mv... in 2900XM max is 1.52v if the cpu runs at lower speeds and is set to like 99flex all it does is like nearly locking at 1.52v in all ranges so its pointless adding +386mv turbo overvoltage on 2900Xm.. 150-200 proves to be all I need to reach the 5ghz ranges.

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Hi Svl7, I find...with 7970m, running Crysis 2 is almost impossible as the GPU will throttle from time to time.

I've monitored the CPU/GPU both and find 920xm is stable.

I've tried to limit CPU power consumption by making the CPU run at stock(24,23,17,17), even limiting the TDP/TDC within 50W.

But seems still can't give 7970m enough power she needs. and the result is the clock frequency keep dropping from 850/1200 to 450/300 from time to time...(GPU temp is absolutely ok as it never hit over 76C)

I'm a little frustrated now and don't know what more I can do to stop the GPU throttling.

the only thing I can think of is to lower the voltage of 7970m. But still, it can't be done now as the vbios can't be modified...

Any thoughts from you? I really need ur suggestions.

Thank you!

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I'm a little frustrated now and don't know what more I can do to stop the GPU throttling.

the only thing I can think of is to lower the voltage of 7970m. But still, it can't be done now as the vbios can't be modified...

Any thoughts from you? I really need ur suggestions.

And I'm a little frustrated when I put hours and hours of work in figuring out how to over- and undervolt the card and people don't even seem to notice this... :P

The vbios can be modified, and seriously, it can't be that hard to find the thread.

http://forum.techinferno.com/general-notebook-discussions/1736-amd-7970m-modified-vbios.html

Hope this helps.

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Truly SVL7 is a diamond in the rough. There is quite some talent in SVL7. Restless days and nights is how he does it :) We really appreciate everything SVL7

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Hey guys I'm new to this kind of stuff, but I really want to upgrade my m15x.

Are specs ok to upgrade??

i7 Q 820, GTX 260m, 6gb, 500gb.

Where do you buy this card? A url would be recommended :D and I also have 600$

Do I have to buy anything else with the card? If yes put the links please :)

After I buy this card, what problems do I face when removing and putting in the card?

After I have inserted the card, what am I supposed to do exactly? Step by Step for this question would be appreciated.

I am sorry I am asking for all of these questions. But I am really new at this and I do not want to waste my hard earned money. thank you

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Hi & welcome to T|I!

Where to buy this card? Good question, I currently got a Dell card running in my system, but sometimes it can be hard to get a card from Dell...

I'm actually waiting for a card from mxm-upgrade to test it, so in case it works, that would be a possible place to get the card.

The upgrading procedure is described in the first post. Once you got the card in your system apply the thermal paste, mount the heatsink, reassemble your system and boot. Then install the drivers and your ready to go.

Edit: I just received my card from mxm-upgrade, will test it as soon as possible. :)

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Hi & welcome to T|I!

Where to buy this card? Good question, I currently got a Dell card running in my system, but sometimes it can be hard to get a card from Dell...

I'm actually waiting for a card from mxm-upgrade to test it, so in case it works, that would be a possible place to get the card.

The upgrading procedure is described in the first post. Once you got the card in your system apply the thermal paste, mount the heatsink, reassemble your system and boot. Then install the drivers and your ready to go.

Edit: I just received my card from mxm-upgrade, will test it as soon as possible. :)

Hi svl, i new comers from your thread in nbr, and still learning how to do this upgrade.

Btw what is the different between your dell card and mxm card ? Should i wait to buy the 7970m until you make sure all kind 7970m card is good for upgrading m15x?

thx, i adore your job sir

Edit: and refer to your thread of 6990m in m15x, is the 7970m have different x plate as 260m ? And is it needed to edit some bios ? (because i really have blank knowledge on bios or editing it)

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Hi, welcome to T|I! :)

I will test the card from mxm-upgrade very soon, probably in the next couple of hours. Whether it will work flawlessly or not... we will see.

The 6990m needs the bigger backplate, the one of the 260m doesn't fit. Same goes for the 7970m, it needs the bigger backplate as well.

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Hi, welcome to T|I! :)

I will test the card from mxm-upgrade very soon, probably in the next couple of hours. Whether it will work flawlessly or not... we will see.

The 6990m needs the bigger backplate, the one of the 260m doesn't fit. Same goes for the 7970m, it needs the bigger backplate as well.

Where do I get the backplate? And what do you mean you buy it from dell? And also I was wondering if my Q 820 will work since it is not the 920 xm.

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The 820QM works fine, if you get your card from MXM-upgrade then the backplate is included. Dell also sells cards, but it's pretty much impossible to convince a rep to sell you one, especially outside of the US.

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Oh, by the way... I can confirm that the 7970m from mxm-upgrade works fine, I'll update the first post in the near future.

An issue is the fan control... fans are always at a high speed, you need HWiNFO to automatically control them, but once you set it up (including autostart and custom fan profile) you don't notice a difference, works like a charm. Idling is very cool and performance is excellent.

Here's a 3dMark11 bench of the card in my M15x, everything at stock - Catalyst settings, CPU, GPU:

post-80-14494993332678_thumb.jpg

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Oh, by the way... I can confirm that the 7970m from mxm-upgrade works fine, I'll update the first post in the near future.

An issue is the fan control... fans are always at a high speed, you need HWiNFO to automatically control them, but once you set it up (including autostart and custom fan profile) you don't notice a difference, works like a charm. Idling is very cool and performance is excellent.

Here's a 3dMark11 bench of the card in my M15x, everything at stock - Catalyst settings, CPU, GPU:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4461[/ATTACH]

Hey man wow real nice. Can you give me a link of where to buy one? And Can i also get a link of the drivers and programs I have to download in order to have no problems. thank you very much

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They didn't put it on the website so far since they waited for the card to be tested... but you can contact them per email, the address can be found on the mxm-upgrade.com site.

The latest 12.7 beta driver works fine, it can be found on AMDs homepage and for the fan control go to HWiNFO, HWiNFO32 & HWiNFO64 - Hardware Information and Analysis Tools

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