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cooling down the 4700mq in lenovo y510p

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Since I started to use the Ultrabay eGPU setup(Thanks to Gerald) with the RX 470. I noticed a CPU bottleneck in some games that need some CPU horsepower (Witcher 3, Watchdogs 2, GTA V ...etc).

So the first thing I did was to replace the thermal paste and clean the laptop from the inside. I used Arctic MX-4 TP and results were impressive(I got rid of instant thermal throttle of the cheap TP that I had before). However, I was not satisfied because I still can not maintain a constant 3.4 Ghz on all cores without hitting 99c(aka thermal throttle).

Next I figured what is the highest clock I can get my cpu to on a single core, 2 cores, 3 cores and 4 cores while keeping temperatures within the acceptable range and set up a custom OC profile(using Throttle stop) with the following settings:

* -60mV on the core offset voltage.

* Difference multiplier ratios for different core usage as shown in the picture below.

FIVR.jpg

 

The achieved temperatures are really nice hovering in 75-85(4 cores @2.8 Ghz), ~65(single core @3.5Ghz) in CPU intensive games. if a game uses single core, then the CPU will run at 3.5 GHz, if four cores then it will run at a 2.8 Ghz. that way I kept both temperatures and fan noise level in check.

 

However, I'm still looking for a better cooling solution that will allow me to run the CPU at 3.4-3.5 Ghz all the time. Here are couple of ideas that came to my mind:

1- attach another cooler to the heat pipes that are exposed when removing the bottom cover of the laptop (AIO water cooler or air cooler; the AIO is an expensive option but will be easier to mount).

2- same as above but using a custom copper pipes from the exposed heat pipes of the laptop to an external CPU cooler. in other words external heat pipes to a secondary external heatsink.

3- strip the laptops motherboard and mount a water cooler (no idea how to do so, thermal glue or custom bracket?).

4-Give me your idea.

 

I need your help to help me decide which path to go and if there is a better way to do it. I really wanna get the max performance out of my 4700MQ.

Edited by Tesla
removed misleading title
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Update: So I've done some minor modifications, although they don't seem much, but they resulted in a huge temperature drop, now the cpu temps dont go past 83 even when stressing it with AIDA64 (5 mins, 3.4Ghz on all 4 cores)

In games the cpu temp is hovering in the 50s - 60s  even when the processor is being heavily utilized. So I'm pretty happy with the thermals so far.

 

Basically I've done two things:

1- I put a good amount of thermal paste in the area under the heat pipe that goes to the gpu and the aluminum base. This will allow CPU temps to be dissipated by 2 Heat pipes instead of one.

2- I removed keyboard to allow more air intake.

 

Cheers.

Edited by Tesla
typo

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Last time I removed the keyboard it really gave me very bad temps.I also put paste on that part of the heatsink.

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3 hours ago, AndreiKan said:

Last time I removed the keyboard it really gave me very bad temps.I also put paste on that part of the heat sink.

On the opposite of you, it gave me a good results. There are many variables tho. the thermal paste, ambient temperature.

 

Here are some numbers:

Idle: 45 'C

CB R15 MC/SC Render Session:

CinebenchR15.png

 

5 minutes AIDA64 Stability Test

AIDA64Stability2.png

AIDA64Stability.png

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With stock bios, overclocked with IXTU cache voltage at - 75 full load 81 C.

GPU1 65C and ultrabay 70, usually there is 6'C difference between them, the latter running hotter.(full load +135 MHZ,)

Second GPU gives me Video management internal after sleep/hibernate though.

 

I have put a button on each brown wire if things get hairy.

 

Edited by AndreiKan
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What do you see in long-term stability of this mod? Have you noticed any performance issues over time?

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It has improved performance now since the first day I had it. The system is stable, unless I undervolt too much or overclock the memory over +50 mhz.

Games run better, those who support SLI, I always use msi afterburner to max out the core frequency +135 mhz  without thermal problems after the mods.

Stock was a mess, ultrabay GPU always went up to 95'C, main GPU and CPU were around 85'C 90'C.

Now Ultrabay stays at 75-80'C, main GPU and CPU 70'C. I keep the CPU at 2.7 ghz.

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Since I'm using ultrabay eGPU and the whole laptop as desktop replacement. this mod has eliminated the cpu perf issues that I had. the addition of thermal paste between the pipes and the heat spreader and the removal of the keyboard made the laptop breathe again. I was playing two games in the last couple days; Witcher 3 and BF1, in both cpu temp was averaging around 60'c while the cpu running at 3.4Ghz on all cores.

 

So far I'm very happy with it.

 

P.S.:I just wanna mention that the nvidia 755m is disabled. the whole heat sink is dedicated to the CPU.

 

This mod probably sucks if you're using the nvidia 755m and need or need the keyboard.

and the removal of the keyboard is just so the fan can breathe fresh air. I found that fresh air coming from the top is way easier and better than from the bottom of the laptop.

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This is not a mod, this is just underclock. Title couldn't be more misleading....

 

Let me show you a real mod:

 

Cut out original fan

187417_orig_cut.jpg

 

Cut out AW fan, and glue it into original fan shroud

187417_aw_glue_side.jpg

 

Other side:

187417_final_aw.jpg

 

Valley stress test:

187417_valley_str_awfan.jpg

 

Valley + TS bench

187417_valley_str_awfan_tsbench.jpg

 

No laptop cooler,or anything, just slightly elevated chassis

With this, been able to use 4930MX@4Ghz for gaming...

 

 

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@ghoul The title is indeed misleading. I'm Sorry. My intention of the title was to ask for opinions about modding.

and you're 100% right, removing the keyboard isn't a mod. however applying of TP under the GPU heat pipe == a sort of mod :P

 

I like your mod and I think it is the way to go if you still using the y510p as a laptop. I don't anymore. So I really don't mind removing the keyboard which achieved pretty much the same results(~60s CPU temps @3.4Ghz on all cores + quiet low rpm fan).

 

Thanks for your input and kudos on your mod.

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@Tesla You don't need to be sorry, no harm was done,just wanted to point it out, that's all.

As a matter of fact, removing keyboard is more of a mod, than a repaste job or downclocking.

TP was meant to be used, so if we want to be correct, not using it should count as one, even if it wouldn't be effective (like a removed keyboard ) :)

 

Thanks, and it is just a 6.4CFM fan, and there is one in this size with around 11CFM, now that should do the job properly (with a plane taking off like sound)

And if you want a small desktop, build an ITX machine, maybe with a huge passive heatsink;)

 

Before someone asks for 4930MX benches, a had to sell that cpu, currently running an i5 4200M, stressing it is around 60C with fan barely ramping up to audible speed.

Edited by ghoul

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@ghoul just want to point out. I am not downclocking anything. the downclocks mentioned in the main post has been removed after the "mod". hence the improved thermals. I've been downclocking and undervolting before due to thermal throttling. Now everything is running at max speeds.

Cheers :D

oh yeah and I'm veryyyyyy curious about your 4930MX. its sad you had to sell it.

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@Tesla That's why I reconsidered my opinion about, if is it a mod,or not. :) However, for most of us, who use it as a notebook, it is unusable.

There are plenty of mods, which can be done to maintain lower temps, keeping the device usable as a portable one like chassis cut, dust filter remove, CLU repaste, heatsink retention washer mod, fan replace mod, fan speed switch mod. Personally i think downclocking anything below rated speed should not be a solution for engineering mistakes.

 

Yes, it was a very funny experience, hence larger notebooks struggle to run that little inferno too. :) Since cTDP is not working, even to lower below rated TDP, so I say, don't do it, use a 47W cpu like 4800MQ, since VRM is running on ( over) the edge with 57W, so do the cooling. I'm not sad, I use it very rarely for gaming nowadays, so silent and cool browsing, general usage is more important for me than raw speed.

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@ghoul Totally agree with you.

I've seen and opened many notebooks, and even tho some of them have large heat sinks, the positioning is usually incorrect with little air intakes that chokes the CPU/GPU. the Y510P is an example of that. the buttom air intake is simply stupid and in order to actually use the laptop without throttling you need to either un-shroud it like you did and added some copper to increase the heat dissipation area Or let the laptop cook itself from inside :P

 

The i5 is a cool running little beast and i think it is more than enough for 60 fps 1080p gaming. Sure enough the i7 has more horses but unless you heavily mod the laptop(like what you've done), you aint gonna see those horses running.

 

Thanks for your input.

Cheers

Edited by Tesla

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Man I've been reviewing other threads on mods and I just cant sit quiet anymore lol, love this stuff too much.

 

@ghoul

How much risk do you think there is in the VRMs burning out with the 4930mx? I was actually debating that or the 4910mq. I had read in another thread about some guy not being able to even hit 3.5Ghz 4 core turbo with the higher end CPU's so its been a huge hurdle trying to get more info, save for maybe us, many do not even think about overclocking in the y510p/y410p due to its heat dissipation issues to begin, so information is scarce. I want to push 4.5Ghz in this machine, but I could probably settle for 4.2Ghz I believe the 4910mq can do, but do you think it will be TDP throttled ?

 

Which AW fan did you order? I just ordered a replacement fan to mod into the Ultrabay 755m that you displayed in another thread and then find this thread of you modding the CPU+GPU fan with a larger fan from an AW machine, awesome stuff! Did you need to re-use the 4-pin connector or was it all plug and play? Its been a couple of years but finally the Dremel will get some use again!

 

I'll also be adding a lot of copper to the heatpipes themselves. The plan I have right now is to use the thermal glue (I do mean, glue) to join the gap in the GPU+CPU heatpipes, then make sure its flat by using some high grit sandpaper, then attaching the copper heatsinks to the pipes. The idea is to make better use of the GPU heatpipe as even with 3.0Ghz @ .99v its around 78c.

 

Im going to remove the spacers from the GPU's and replace them with copper shims, so this way I can use those spacers on my CPU. I am in South Korea for the foreseeable future, so finding the spacers isnt a simple task right now but still want ot move forward with the mods.

 

Obviously cant be encouraging heatsoak so ill be cutting wholes into the bottom panel, attaching grills.

 

The goal is 2 fold here. I want to get the most CPU power I can get out of this machine as ill be going the route of Ultrabay eGPU like @Tesla has, however I still want the mods to be internal, and somewhat mobile. I also want to make the palm rest cooler, as its quite hot right now. Which means I gott get it around 65c probably

 

I probably wont be upgrading for a couple of years since Intel axed rPGA in favor of BGA, so I have no interest in anything new until I see Ryzen mobile which should be around the 2H of this year.

 

 

I was also thinking of grabbing one of those Opolar LC05/LC06 vacuum coolers since the fan curve in the y510p is quite low. They are like 55 USD in S. Korea so I have forgone that for now in favor of copper heatsinks, allowing airflow from the bottom, and larger ultrabay 755m fan.

 

 

 

I also want to pose another question to @Tesla

 

Do you happen to have an extra HDD/SSD laying around? I am really curious if the SATA port is active despite having the ultrabay in use via GPU/eGPU If so, that would be a sweet deal. Can just grab an enclosure with eSATA and use an adapter (cable) just tape the enclosure to the back of the monitor or something lol.

 

In any case love what you guys have been doing here and have been lurking these topics for a couple of years now. I had to trade/sell my ITX desktop because I didnt want to have it confiscated by Airport security. I knew the y510p had that adapter by Gerald so I traded for the y510p locally before leaving the U.S.

 

EDIT: I was also wondering if either of you know where to locate the 9 cell battery that is compatible with our laptops? I found someone that had done it, which naturally elevates the laptop. Here is the link to the thread.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/lenovo-y410p-custom-upgrade-paint.782791/

 

Thanks guys !

 

 

Edited by TheReciever
9 cell battery inquiry

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@TheReceiver

About the secondary SATA port, it should work along the ultrabay since they're separate connectors. I'll give it a try once I receive the male-to-male SATA cable that I ordered specifically for this purpose.

 

In order to get the most out of your CPU w/Ultrabay; The Opolar vacuum coolers are great if you don't mind the noise. Un-shrouding the bottom cover would certainly be a better solution and a quieter one. the trick is to provide an ample fresh air flow to the air intake under the laptop.

 

I am really clueless about the batteries. But I can tell you this much; Avoid batteries that are not from lenovo coz there is a good chance that the laptop will refuse to charge them.

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@TheReciever

First of all forget 4.5 even large AW machines are unable to run them at that speed, heat and power is too much.

4.2 with AW, but never gonna happen in this machine for multiple reasons.

 

First of all 4910MQ is 47W cpu. 4930MX's deafult IA max current is 95A and Lenovo bios sets it 86 if i remember correctly. Evven with unlocked bios, tried to increase it, but nothing happened.

So did the cTDP failed to work, no matter, how i set it in bios, MSR as set according, and XTU was able to read those settings, but throttling occured way before that, porbably,because of current limit, which is programmed by EC after bios init, so those settings are overwritten.

With undervoltin, was able to run Throttlestop bench @57W TDP throttling, cpu speed was hovering between 37 and 38 multi.

Don't expect more from Lenovo, and with 47W cpu, it will be even lower.

With more current usage,like AVX load, speeds where down as 3.0 with 4700MQ, didn't tried that with 4930mx, probably you will understand why :)

Lenovo repair manual for motherboard states clear, 47W cpu max, use cooling on vrm, and expect it to fail over time :) And remove battery, when you tempering around VRM, those are under power ,and risking shortage( been there, done that... tried to move thermal pad over with screwdriver, motherboard almost died, had to repair it)

 

What spacer are you trying to remove? If you want more pressure on chip, use washer mod, copper shim will introduce another layer of thermal interface between chip and heatsink.

 

Regarding extra heatsink... For heatplate( let's call it that), as you can see, you can add copper sink, but, this is a two sided weapon. You will gain, for being more thermally capacitive( English not my native, excuse me if it is unenglish :) ), and heat from chip will be absorbed by copper heatsink as well, delaying temp increase nad flattening down heatspikes.  But, downside is, the are dissipating to chassi, so eventually, when final temps are equalized, temps will be as high as without them. Cooling down will be slowed as well, so only reason to use them is for this.

But, putting those on heatpipe in the chassis, will make it even worse, because it will downgrade the efficiency of heatpipe, since not all heat will absorb outside the chassis, but part of it inside. Strongly unadvised.

 

Cutting chassis,so fan will be able to breath more fresh cold air is a better approach. But don't forget, VRM will be hotter,since airflow over it will be lower.

 

Those outside sucker are as good to practice throwing to dumpster. Use brown wire cut switch, and it will force fans to run at max speed.

 

Sata can be connected via flexy cable, so 1 m.2 and 2 sata devices can be inserted, if you strip sata ssds, 2 can fit on top of each other at original location.

 

Almost forgot, fan is XN0G5 part number , AW m14 R2 fan. 4 pins inner two pins have to be switched, and that's it.

 

 

Edit, did forgot something:

 

Even with original 4700mq downvolted, inner power cable at motherboard side was almost burned. Switched out, but when used with 4930mx motherboard pins became so hot it occured after two weeks or so. If you want to use it for folding, replace power cable and solder it onto motherboard. I used 2.5 mm2 speaker cables, which was a pain in the ass to route under left speaker, and getting motherboard out became harder as well.

Edited by ghoul

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Sweet, I figured with how locked this system is out of the box that it would likely disable the SATA port if Ultrabay was populated. I dont have an extra drive right now so I cant test it myself.

 

@ghoul

Hmm quite the hurdle.

 

Chassis is already cut for more airflow, Im not throttling anymore but temps are still way too high, the fan curve just sucks. I've already cut the wire for the ultrabay and still 15c higher than GPU1 at stock volts, have to undervolt to keep it from reaching 97c eventually. Which is the motivation for the larger fan on the ultrabay side.

 

This is unfortunate that the 4930mx is too much for the y510p, I recall xoticpc selling these laptops with the option for 4930mx back in the day but maybe no one actually bought any. There really isnt much point to getting the 48xx/49xx though as they are just as locked to 47w and thus cant actually access the higher multipliers when under significant load, might change some under gaming but would make it difficult to test for stability I would imagine. In a nutshell, its either stick with the 4700mq or undergo heavy modification to accommodate the 4930mx/4940mx. I actually like the second option, the challenge seems fun but since there is the price hike on those chips Ill have to wait a while before pulling the trigger on it, its also likely ill just buy it from another laptop on ebay, some are going for 900 when the chip itself goes for 500-600.

 

Spacer was probably the wrong term, I should have said washers. I have no way of locating them here in Korea at the moment, I'll just test it and see how it works out, I've had success with them in the past.

 

Regarding the heatpipes, I've already purchased the copper heatsinks. The idea is to transfer as much heat to the other pipe as possible, I have already glued the GPU pipe to the CPU portion but temps are still differing greatly. Im sitting in a somewhat populated area in Final Fantasy 14 at the moment with 28% load @ 79c-82c (3.4Ghz 4 core -90mv core/-90mv cache) while GPU1 is 65c -25mv (stock clocks) and GPU2 70c -50mv (stock clocks)

 

its my opinion (no hard data to back this) that the heatpipes are already underutilized due to low fan curve. Its why replacing with larger fan is a great idea because even though it will just lower rpm of the fan due to increased airflow when it hits top load temps the end result should still be lower than stock solution. In any case, if it doesnt work out, I can just as easily pull them off, but thats unlikely as Ill need them to transfer heat to the GPU pipe after its disabled.

 

Fun little project at least

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11 hours ago, Tesla said:

@TheReceiver

About the secondary SATA port, it should work along the ultrabay since they're separate connectors. I'll give it a try once I receive the male-to-male SATA cable that I ordered specifically for this purpose.

 

In order to get the most out of your CPU w/Ultrabay; The Opolar vacuum coolers are great if you don't mind the noise. Un-shrouding the bottom cover would certainly be a better solution and a quieter one. the trick is to provide an ample fresh air flow to the air intake under the laptop.

 

I am really clueless about the batteries. But I can tell you this much; Avoid batteries that are not from lenovo coz there is a good chance that the laptop will refuse to charge them.

 

If you are referring to the usage of both the Ultrabay PCIe and SATA slots concurrently, then it is definitely possible. I am doing this right now. You just need the correct cable. I'm using this one from Amazon. It allows you to connect the Ultrabay SATA port to an HDD caddy. This one connects directly to the HDD without the caddy. Here's my (messy) setup.

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Thats awesome man, thanks for sharing!

 

I figured it would be a 50/50 chance of it working but stoked that it does. Making it a clean looking install is more challenging but at this stage I believe function over form is what we're after anyways

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On 2/12/2017 at 4:58 PM, Tesla said:

On the opposite of you, it gave me a good results. There are many variables tho. the thermal paste, ambient temperature.

 

Here are some numbers:

Idle: 45 'C

CB R15 MC/SC Render Session:

CinebenchR15.png

 

5 minutes AIDA64 Stability Test

AIDA64Stability2.png

AIDA64Stability.png

My idles are around 60C, even after repasting and adding some thermal paste under the GPU heat pipe to help the CPU. Even a 100mv undervolt has not helped much. Is there any way to decrease my temps?

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My idle temps currently is 38c-43c

 

I have the grill removed, washer/spring mod applied, and 6 pieces of copper attached to heatpipe and aluminum with a cooling pad, also thermal "glue" applied to the GPU pipe over the CPU area.

 

Its why Im a little irritated with my load temps lol, 82c Got to work on lowering the temps more.

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Mine are ~41 with normal loads like chrome tabs /w stock voltages.

You could try sanding down the heat sink surface and make sure it is making proper contact with the CPU die.

60c is really high for Idle, Are you using a good thermal paste? I had the same problem before with a cheap thermal paste.

Edited by Tesla

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20 hours ago, TheReciever said:

Sweet, I figured with how locked this system is out of the box that it would likely disable the SATA port if Ultrabay was populated. I dont have an extra drive right now so I cant test it myself.

 

@ghoul

Hmm quite the hurdle.

....

 

Ultrabay fan is weak even at max speed, but, you can fit original main fan to ultrabay, lower pitch than y500 fan, which is stronger by the way, but it is still enough for 1 gpu, and noise is less.

 

I think it held very well, regarding the size of heatsink, and vrm overload, but that is out if its league.

47W but larger cpu could work, since under gaming load, it can boost up to 4930 speeds, but under heavy load, tdp will keep it cool ( compared to 57W)

I bought is from local marketplace, it was around 200EUR, and sold it around 170... ebay is waaaay overpriced. 4200m was arround 40EUR...  a 4340m slipped out of my hand, and that was even a bit cheaper. that would have been the perfect cpu for me.

 

Max temps will be only lower if you increase disspipation space on  other side of pipe, like larger fins, increased airflow, lowered ambient temps.

And of ocurse, @skavi use CLU, and with that less is not always the better, apply it to chip and heatsink as well, and increase pressure on chip via washers.

I don't have to mention, when using clu, insulate smds beside the chip, do I?

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Yeah the ultrabay fan is just not large enough to keep the temps in range at stock volts (for my unit) and I like overclocking every machine I get my hands on, so this poses a problem when my goal is just to not overheat at stock. My GPU's are doing doing ok as long as they are undervolted. Right now in a cave in FF14 GPU1 is 67c and GPU2 76c when both have a -25mv applied.

 

I might go with the 4910mq then in the future and see what I can get out of it. I have to find out more information on it, max 4 core turbo at stock is 3.7Ghz which is kind of silly. I believe 6 bins are accessible which would make it 4.3Ghz (not that I expect that clock) For now I want to get the system set to go as it is right now, however once I finally move on to the eGPU the biggest bottleneck becomes the CPU, I can alleviate it by making sure temps are low, and high speed (2133mhz) memory. Its why I am concerned about how much raw power I can get from the CPU in this laptop, I'll likely pick up VEGA when ever it drops as it will last me long enough time to go into multiple systems, just want to limit the bottleneck as much as possible.

 

Im still using NT-H1, its probably time for me to also finally make the jump to liquid metal...Its just quite expensive right now.

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